Pirelli Super Softs

[What's Burning?]

In yesterday's practice I was watching Massa heart in throat after he put on the Super Soft (Red) Pirellis. I would have thought that the additional grip would have made the car more planted through the turns in Monaco, but they actually seemed to have the opposite effect where the car just became squirrely and he avoided catastrophe at least 3 times.

So can anyone that know what's going on with the car set up explain that effect when I would have expected the opposite? Would it have been just a case of the SS tires actually getting too much grip and then inducing oversteer? An if that's the case and they need to adjust for them would that only come at the expense of understeer in the Softs?

[texasmr2]

I only caught alittle of practice and did not see Massa's ontrack issue but if I may... I'm beginning to think that it is just Massa's issue with not really being able to set the car up for different track's? If the tires were his issue there are many variables that could have influenced his 'issue's'.

Pirelli's has really tossed a mouse into the snake pit with their tires but I have a strange feeling that there could be some 'outside influence' for the show spectacle which is imho and probably others aswell but I may be blowing smoke. Or it could just be that this is an experimental year for them and next season we may see more stability?

Quali should be an exciting event and I PRAY that I do not see a RBR on pole.

[darwin dali]

I only caught alittle of practice and did not see Massa's ontrack issue but if I may... I'm beginning to think that it is just Massa's issue with not really being able to set the car up for different track's? If the tires were his issue there are many variables that could have influenced his 'issue's'.

Pirelli's has really tossed a mouse into the snake pit with their tires but I have a strange feeling that there could be some 'outside influence' for the show spectacle which is imho and probably others aswell but I may be blowing smoke. Or it could just be that this is an experimental year for them and next season we may see more stability?

Quali should be an exciting event and I PRAY that I do not see a RBR on pole.

Well, I reckon you didn't do a good job in Sunday school

[Fluffy]

Massa hasn't been the same driver since his camera incident.

[What's Burning?]

Massa hasn't been the same driver since his camera incident.

what happened to his camera? Felipe Massa has had a lukewarm F1 career and he's been beaten by drivers that we tend to think as middle of the pack. Yes he's beaten champions twice, but they weren't either at their most motivated or at their prime so I believe Massa hasn't lost all that much, being paired with Alonso is simply bringing attention to their difference. Let's keep this thread about the super softs, I'm sure there's a Massa thread here somewhere if you'd like to discuss further.

[scotty]

Maybe this wasn't the tyres, he might have just been going for a qualifying style run.

[Jabberwocky]

No one seems to have mentioned the single tyre supplier, think of the issues when we went to a single tyre supplier, how many drivers had issues converting over to it. Maybe this is the same thing?

[bud]

I would think the car setup he had with the super softs made Massa's grip levels change from the softs. Like you pointed out the front end had too much grip causing oversteer.

[What's Burning?]

No one seems to have mentioned the single tyre supplier, think of the issues when we went to a single tyre supplier, how many drivers had issues converting over to it. Maybe this is the same thing?

Jabber we have the exact same post count... yet I had to go and screw it up by posting this one!

[bigpat]

Softer tyres are a double edged sword in all categories. There are 2 fundamental rules that you must remember:

1. Softer tyres give more grip, which means higher cornering speeds. This means the margin for error narrows considerably, as the driver is operating closer to the ultimate limits of the car. If the driver steps over the grip limit, the car breaks away quicker, and to a greater magnitude.

2. Softer tyres always amplify any chassis balance issues that exist in the car setup. You can bet Massa had the same issues on the harder tyre, but to a lesser extent...

You will generally see the better cars make the tyres last longer in the race. It's rare in a rear drive car that the fronts deteriorate before rears, as they have less energy being put through them.