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[killem2]

Seeing as how Red Bull techincally owns both Toro Rosso and Red Bull, why can't they just be identical in every way and just take up the first four grid slots ever time?

[madbrad]

Don't the teams each have to make their own cars? Technucally, the RBR team does not own TR. RBR and TR are both owned by the Red Bull corporate entity or for all I know maybe they're personally owned by Matzchitz. I don't know how to spell that. I'm embarassed to say I don't know whether Berger still owns half of TR. I haven't been keeping up.
As for the engine, they could just happen to buy the same one. Anyhoo, TR is left to its principals who are charged with running it independently of RBR. When Flav bought Ligier, the Ligier did start lookiing like the Benetton though. And Benetton got the Renault mill from the Ligier, which took on the Mugen unit, winning the Monaco GP with it.

[Jensonb]

The Toro Rosso and the Red Bull were identical in past, but the rules changed a couple of years ago so now every constructor is required to design their own chassis.

[Gaz]

The Toro Rosso and the Red Bull were identical in past, but the rules changed a couple of years ago so now every constructor is required to design their own chassis.

Yep, however they can share certain parts, such as KERS or Gearbox etc..

[The_Stig_Money]

Seeing as how Red Bull techincally owns both Toro Rosso and Red Bull, why can't they just be identical in every way and just take up the first four grid slots ever time?

People are catching on to the plan of having an all red bull race. JK

I always viewed the 2 teams as just having the same sponsor, but i dont think we will have them being competitive with each other

[bigpat]

Agree that the 2 used to share a lot of design info. Similar yes, identical, no. The cars had different engines, gearboxes etc, which can lead to quite large changes in the finished product. I would think the base design was by Red Bull Technology, but the rest would be done by each team (STR) itself. The different level of personnel and funding between the two, then controls how much the car is developed through the season, in my opinion.

Since last year, STR do their own thing, design, construction, and development wise. Look at last year, when the STR F-Duct was shown to be much better than RBR's.

The two teams may share a sponsor, and may have shared design info, but both are separate teams, are racers, and want to beat each other....

[Jensonb]

Agree that the 2 used to share a lot of design info. Similar yes, identical, no. The cars had different engines, gearboxes etc, which can lead to quite large changes in the finished product. I would think the base design was by Red Bull Technology, but the rest would be done by each team (STR) itself. The different level of personnel and funding between the two, then controls how much the car is developed through the season, in my opinion.

Functionally identical rather than truly identical. The changes made to accomodate the engines and gearboxes are a given. On a fundamental level, they were identical. Indeed, many though not all of the parts of the chassis were probably interchangeable.

On an interesting side-note, through an engineering fluke, the 2008 Toro Rosso wound up being a better car than the nearly-identical Red Bull because the Ferrari engine - already a better more reliable unit than the Renault the Red Bull was using - actually suited the basic chassis better than the Renault did. This despite the fact the Red Bull was the base spec, with the Toro Rosso being the modified design.

[bigpat]

I still believe the cars were fundamentally different.

Red Bull Tech would have done a base layout, but more importantly done the composite engineering for the monocoque, and crash structures, to STR's requirements. The details related to installation of the Ferrari engine would have been all STR, as Ferrari would not want details of the installation, heat rejection etc, known to another team. Due to difference in installation, I would be very surprised if anything actually interchanged, although they looked similar.

I don't believe the 2008 STR was fluke at Monza, any less that the 2009 Force India was at Spa....

The car obviously had a competitive low downforce package, and of course the Ferrari engine had more grunt than the Renault, as it received a number of "reliability upgrades" through the season.

[Jensonb]

I still believe the cars were fundamentally different.

Red Bull Tech would have done a base layout, but more importantly done the composite engineering for the monocoque, and crash structures, to STR's requirements. The details related to installation of the Ferrari engine would have been all STR, as Ferrari would not want details of the installation, heat rejection etc, known to another team. Due to difference in installation, I would be very surprised if anything actually interchanged, although they looked similar.

I don't believe the 2008 STR was fluke at Monza, any less that the 2009 Force India was at Spa....

The car obviously had a competitive low downforce package, and of course the Ferrari engine had more grunt than the Renault, as it received a number of "reliability upgrades" through the season.

The Toro Rosso was better than the Red Bull pretty much all year. The fluke was at a fundamental engineering level, not a specific race being a fluke. Once the cars were finished, Red Bull were on the back foot compared to their B-Team - the Toro Rosso was better. Which wasn't supposed to happen. It was entirely accidental - a fluke.

[killem2]

And it had vettel at the wheel is 2008

[f1ea]

the 2 teams share much more than just a sponsor/owner.
they shared a chassis when it was allowed, and i'm sure they didnt share engines and so on for weird reasons rather than desire. i'm surprised teams like Ferrari, who wanted a 3 car per team grid, havent come up with a full scale Bteam like RB has. Although toro rosso is a bit less of a bteam now than it was before; but the fact that drivers would easily move from one team to another, share the same 'academy', same parents, would help eachother in races ie abu dhabi.......... effectively makes it a Bteam.

[What's Burning?]

would help eachother in races ie abu dhabi.......... effectively makes it a Bteam.

Whaaaa?

[Hammer278]

would help eachother in races ie abu dhabi.......... effectively makes it a Bteam.

Whaaaa?

It's called leftover 'hurt' from 2010 in regards to watching Alonso struggle to get past a rookie for half the race.

[vaptin]

would help eachother in races ie abu dhabi.......... effectively makes it a Bteam.

Whaaaa?

It seemed the Torro Rosso just let Webber cruise past after his pitstop in Abu Dhabi.

would help eachother in races ie abu dhabi.......... effectively makes it a Bteam.

Whaaaa?

It's called leftover 'hurt' from 2010 in regards to watching Alonso struggle to get past a rookie for half the race.

Will you stop baiting over that? Will you?

[killem2]

I feel it was petrov skills that kept him at bay rather than suggesting alonzo is crap.