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By Gaz
#69706
LOL Mercades! for a start lets call Williams Toyota team 2 shall we? or Red Bull Renault team 2 get my point? its Mclaren! Just because Merc supply (very good) engines is no need to start renaming a team.


Well sooner or later it will be a MERCEDES. Despite what Ron Dennis thinks, he cannot be around forever and then who do you think will get the remaining share of McLaren. :D


I think if you stuck lewis in that Torro rosso in Monza he would of been able to deliver the goods just like vettle. Your correct about one thing the car does play a big part in F1 but lewis thoughly deserves that seat and to say otherwise your just a fool


I don't agree. There are many out there who work just as hard and are just as good as Lewis Hamilton who would do well in that McLaren seat. Lewis Hamilton is just a lucky b@stard who has that seat and for example had Vettel had that same McLaren seat, who knows he could be running for the World Drivers Title as well.


There is as much chance of Mclaren being renamed Mercedes as Ferrari being named FIAT think about that before you go shouting about Mercades owns mclaren they have a small share in Mclaren Group wheras FIAT owns FERRARI

Whitmarsh will take over Mclaren Group (a big company in its own right) as he is starting to take the reigns from Ron now.

Vettle crashed for most of the start of the year Lewis hasn't
Last edited by Gaz on 05 Oct 08, 10:55, edited 2 times in total.
By Gaz
#69707

1.probably due to the problems between hamilton and alonso and the bitter rivalry. inside mclaren, the team was probably not balanced correctly and if dennis is going to support one driver or the other he is going to side with hamilton because hamilton has grown up with ron
2.you really cant compare yourself to hekki and say if your better you are "special." as you said, heikki is and "average driver." beating an average driver does not make you special.
3.it shows the mclaren does very well in water conditions as shown even in other races while ferrari greatly lagged behind.

there are plenty of others that try just as hard and deserve the seat much more like AKR said. the drivers i am talking about are kubica or vettel for example


Lol Rivlary causing Alonso to drive bad? no i don't think so he got overtaken at the 1st race and there was no rivaly then Mclaren operate no bias towards either driver and the reason alonso was brought in was to win the WDC/WCC for Mclaren they never expected Hamilton to be able to do it they expected just a rookie that would learn of Alonso and perhaps one day become WDC/WCC.

The FIA was brought in to see this during the Last race of the season and that was that.

2. Right so you admit Lewis is abit special then? whats your point? He beat the 06 WDC in his 1st year in the same car and really got to Alonso.

3. Yes the Mclaren likes the wet but in silverstone where did hekki finish? get my point now stop being a male chicken.
#69709
Well sooner or later it will be a MERCEDES. Despite what Ron Dennis thinks, he cannot be around forever and then who do you think will get the remaining share of McLaren. :D

Mercedes, most likely, but that doesn't mean the team will be called Mercedes. Unless I'm doting, Ferrari are owned by FIAT and are still called Ferrari. :rolleyes:

wow, okay if your going to pick out things like that ill clarify for you. i said two different names because the team name is mclaren-mercedes. seriously its almost like saying "no i dont drive a benz, i drive a mercedes." yes i know they are different but the two are one team, using one name references the whole team. and yes i did see what he did when he was younger. lets take karting...of course he was good in karting when he was younger, he had a mclaren-mercedes kart. hes been all over ron dennis his whole life. its for this reason why he places so high. yes he has talent but the car he drives greatly enhances it. ill show you with this example. mclaren-mercedes, these past years, is always on the front of the grid. kovalainen, in renault last year did not place or qualify at the top of the grid. he finished with only 30 points. once he went to mclaren-mercedes he started scoring poles and has bagged 1 win. did he become a much better driver in 1 year?...not likely. it was the car! like i said, put hamilton in a different car and hes not great at all.

If you want to talk about teammates, let's assess Kovalainen's performance last season. In the same car, he completely thrashed Fisichella, who many would say is a decent, if not exactly spectacular driver. That follows that Kovalainen is a better than average driver. This season, despite all manner of support from McLaren, Kovalainen has been completely owned by Hamilton. The corollary of this is that Hamilton is a very talented driver.

It's true that Hamilton had good equipment at this disposal, but, again, you're leaving out important factors. As mentioned, other drivers who McLaren have sponsored failed to make the grade. In fact, almost all of them do. Does that not indicate that McLaren's vetting process is rigourous and sorts the wheat from the chaff? Second, in the same equipment as other drivers in Hamilton's time in the junior formulae, he wiped the floor with them. Again, this would suggest that Hamilton is talented. Finally, McLaren have all sorts of computer data etc. which tells them how Hamilton is performing. The team would know if he is extracting the most from his car etc. without having to look at his results. Once more, this suggests Hamilton is clearly a good driver.

1.probably due to the problems between hamilton and alonso and the bitter rivalry. inside mclaren, the team was probably not balanced correctly and if dennis is going to support one driver or the other he is going to side with hamilton because hamilton has grown up with ron
2.you really cant compare yourself to hekki and say if your better you are "special." as you said, heikki is and "average driver." beating an average driver does not make you special.
3.it shows the mclaren does very well in water conditions as shown even in other races while ferrari greatly lagged behind.

there are plenty of others that try just as hard and deserve the seat much more like AKR said. the drivers i am talking about are kubica or vettel for example

Oh, all this again. :rolleyes:

1. Things were perfectly even in McLaren. The only time they were not was when McLaren insisted that its drivers follow the team's policy at Monaco: the fastest driver until qualifying gets to choose whether or not he wants the non-safety-car or safety-car strategy and that both drivers are allowed to race freely until the final round of pit stops. It's interesting that you pick up on Alonso's criticisms of the team, but fail to mention Hamilton's criticisms as well. But, of course, that does not suit your specious argument. Also, I would refer you to last year's drivers' title table and statistics.

2. See above.

3. And the Toro Rosso does not handle well in the wet? I thought that Berger and Vettel both said the car was good in those conditions. Oh, yes, but that piece of information does not fit with your agenda either. Do you also mean to tell me that the MP4-23 has a massive handling advantage over every chassis on the grid in wet weather? The Ferrari may not like wet weather as much as the McLaren, but there are other cars that handle fairly well in damp conditions too. In Monza, other good cars were being driven by other talented drivers and Hamilton breezed past them all. What about last season, too, when Hamilton put in some great drives in wet conditions? The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.
User avatar
By 7UpJordan
#69721
The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.

I wonder why the F2008 has been an absolute pig in the wet this year? Massa spinning tonnes of times at Silverstone, barely making Q3 in Monza and Kimi getting eliminated in Q2 at Monza. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact now that traction control has been eliminated, it's the difference the driver makes?
#69726
The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.

I wonder why the F2008 has been an absolute pig in the wet this year? Massa spinning tonnes of times at Silverstone, barely making Q3 in Monza and Kimi getting eliminated in Q2 at Monza. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact now that traction control has been eliminated, it's the difference the driver makes?

Perhaps that has something to do with it on three, levels: First, because at least one of Ferrari's drivers are not of the highest quality available; because the Ferrari engine isn't quite as drivable as the Mercedes unit at low revs; and because it can't get heat into its tyres the way the MP4-23 does.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 05 Oct 08, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By EwanM
#69727
The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.

I wonder why the F2008 has been an absolute pig in the wet this year? Massa spinning tonnes of times at Silverstone, barely making Q3 in Monza and Kimi getting eliminated in Q2 at Monza. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact now that traction control has been eliminated, it's the difference the driver makes?

Perhaps that has something to do with it on three, levels: First, because at least one of Ferrari's drivers are not of the best highest quality available; because the Ferrari engine isn't quite as drivable as the Mercedes unit at low revs; and because it can't get heat into its tyres the way the MP4-23 does.


That is true.
But you have to remember - Raikkonen isn't as bad if he tries.
He was faster than Hamilton before Ferrari decided to pick the wrong tyres at Silverstone.
By Gaz
#69729
The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.

I wonder why the F2008 has been an absolute pig in the wet this year? Massa spinning tonnes of times at Silverstone, barely making Q3 in Monza and Kimi getting eliminated in Q2 at Monza. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact now that traction control has been eliminated, it's the difference the driver makes?

Perhaps that has something to do with it on three, levels: First, because at least one of Ferrari's drivers are not of the best highest quality available; because the Ferrari engine isn't quite as drivable as the Mercedes unit at low revs; and because it can't get heat into its tyres the way the MP4-23 does.


That is true.
But you have to remember - Raikkonen isn't as bad if he tries.
He was faster than Hamilton before Ferrari decided to pick the wrong tyres at Silverstone.


He was faster yes but he wasn't consistant
User avatar
By Denthúl
#69730
The F2007 handled the rain fairly well, but that did nothing to stop Hamilton looking impressive.

I wonder why the F2008 has been an absolute pig in the wet this year? Massa spinning tonnes of times at Silverstone, barely making Q3 in Monza and Kimi getting eliminated in Q2 at Monza. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact now that traction control has been eliminated, it's the difference the driver makes?

Perhaps that has something to do with it on three, levels: First, because at least one of Ferrari's drivers are not of the best highest quality available; because the Ferrari engine isn't quite as drivable as the Mercedes unit at low revs; and because it can't get heat into its tyres the way the MP4-23 does.


That is true.
But you have to remember - Raikkonen isn't as bad if he tries.
He was faster than Hamilton before Ferrari decided to pick the wrong tyres at Silverstone.


He was faster yes but he wasn't consistant


He was once he'd managed to get heat into the tyres. Then Ferrari made a bad call with the weather and left them on, effectively ending any chances he had of keeping up with Lewis and possibly overtaking him.
User avatar
By AKR
#69738
what and Schumacher could win in a midfield car?


He won in 1994 in a Benetton-Ford. That was quite inferior to the Williams-Renault of Damon Hill.
User avatar
By AKR
#69739
There is as much chance of Mclaren being renamed Mercedes as Ferrari being named FIAT think about that before you go shouting about Mercades owns mclaren they have a small share in Mclaren Group wheras FIAT owns FERRARI

Whitmarsh will take over Mclaren Group (a big company in its own right) as he is starting to take the reigns from Ron now.

Vettle crashed for most of the start of the year Lewis hasn't


Question is this. Fiat owns Ferrari but would prefer to call their racing team Ferrari for the most obvious reasons. When Mercedes eventually owns most of McLaren or all of it, what would you think the big German company is want to call their number 1 and most important racing team, McLaren or Mercedes-Benz? I think the answer is obvious.............. and I know it hurts inside but think of the bright side, it may be some time still before it ever happens. :wink:
#69740
what and Schumacher could win in a midfield car?


He won in 1994 in a Benetton-Ford. That was quite inferior to the Williams-Renault of Damon Hill.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
By Gaz
#69741
There is as much chance of Mclaren being renamed Mercedes as Ferrari being named FIAT think about that before you go shouting about Mercades owns mclaren they have a small share in Mclaren Group wheras FIAT owns FERRARI

Whitmarsh will take over Mclaren Group (a big company in its own right) as he is starting to take the reigns from Ron now.

Vettle crashed for most of the start of the year Lewis hasn't


Question is this. Fiat owns Ferrari but would prefer to call their racing team Ferrari for the most obvious reasons. When Mercedes eventually owns most of McLaren or all of it, what would you think the big German company is want to call their number 1 and most important racing team, McLaren or Mercedes-Benz? I think the answer is obvious.............. and I know it hurts inside but think of the bright side, it may be some time still before it ever happens. :wink:



The shareholding is thus Daimler 40%, Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company 30%, Ron Dennis 15% and Mansour Ojjeh 15%.

So Daimler (Mercedes) owns only 40% so they don't have a big enough say in Mclaren GROUP to even suggest something like that.

2ndly Mclaren is a name like Ferrari that is synonymous with F1 so there's as much chance of Ferrari being called Fiat as there is of Mclaren being called Ferrari

Mercades has enough brand precence by having the badge on the front of the car above the Mclaren badge and having Mercades Benz written across the engine cover.

On top of that Mercades have enough notability as a constructor in DTM on top of that if they were to own any more of Mclaren they would look upon Mclaren as they look upon AMG and you would get special Mercedes cars like the SLR Mclaren

In Short There is no way in hell they would get rid of a brand name that has been around since 1963 and all your doing by going on about this is making your self look more and more pathetic because you have a hatred and not a respect for a team in F1.
User avatar
By 7UpJordan
#69742
what and Schumacher could win in a midfield car?

The only "midfield" car Schumacher drove was my name sake. But that was still a good enough car to cause Benetton a few problems. I suppose you could count that year's Benetton too aside from Piquet's flukey victory at Montreal and those 2 fastest laps that Moreno set, until Walkinshaw and Schumacher came along they weren't anything special in 1991.
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