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[CookinFlat6]

Thought we should move this from the team threads, as team discussions don't include factual discussions only stylised and idealised and romantic musings that won't upset 'fans'

It is sour grapes on the part of Ferrari and Red Bull, we see this time and time again in F1; and frankly it's tiresome! The truth is that if Renault or Ferrari were so far ahead like Mercedes are currently, I'd be willing to bet that Mercedes would be pushing for change or trying to get the (split turbo system, as used by Mercedes) design banned!

When has Mercedes whined or whinged like losers about anything and demanded rule changes? They have no history in regards to requests like this so your claim is unsubstantiated, on the other hand Ferrari are the perennial whiners while now they have the drinks company for support. Only the drinks company is smarter in actually benefiting from unfair rule changes while the perennial whiners just get even more f**ked after succeeding in the lobbying department.

It's actually extremely worrying how unintelligent and reactive Ferrari are over and over

Whenever RBR want something done they present it to Ferrari and Ferrari take the bait and jump in with their 'special status heritage veto' and they seem happy to cut their own noses just to shake things up. A bit like button jumping in the pits to change tyre automatically whenever overtaken by his teammate

Except they have become a laughing stock an a perfect example of corporate buffoonery

Bernie says 'they are not very bright'
Alonso says 'they should be more clever'
They pay Kimi to leave, then pay him to come back
They demand an engine formula then say they are not competitive making engines
The only title they have won for ages was taken from another team and given to them
They got RBR the tyres they wanted
They hire and sack engineers instead of any planning or strategy
And yet we have to be dictated to by Ferrari and it's fans what's good for the sport?

[What's Burning?]

I think if Ferrari were in Mercedes position they wouldn't be saying anything or holding any rash meetings.
Pathetic!

This is the same Ferrari and many of their fans that waxed poetic about last year's championship being taken from them because of the tire change? Those tires weren't unsafe, if a team can't produce a car around a set of regulations well tough them. I'm sure I can go pick out half a dozen comments like that just from the off season.

[Hammer278]

Which is why we have no fans of that team commenting on anything which Ferrari are whining about this season.

[spankyham]

It's not fair if Ferrari, or any team, make a big fuss and get rules changed mid season just because they haven't done so well working with them, grossly unfair! Of course Ferrari fans will vote they don't like the regs, because Ferrari aren't doing well. Have Mercedes fans been asked? Or considered in this? There are quite a lot of Mercedes fans and I would suggest they're pretty happy with the regs....since they're the same for everyone and teams have known about them for a long time.
I don't like the sound of the engines but I don't want them changing mid season.

I'll be livid if Ferrari and Red bull get this changed. Where were the summit meetings when fans didn't like go-slow tyres? DRS? Far flung races that nobody goes to?
Ok rant over.

I think if Ferrari were in Mercedes position they wouldn't be saying anything or holding any rash meetings.
Pathetic!

This is the same Ferrari and many of their fans that waxed poetic about last year's championship being taken from them because of the tire change? Those tires weren't unsafe, if a team can't produce a car around a set of regulations well tough them. I'm sure I can go pick out half a dozen comments like that just from the off season.

As WB has pointed out, in 2013, the rules were changed mid season. Ferrari opposed that change. The calls for change were led by Mercedes. Lauda was very vocal. His criticisms had nothing to do with safety. He didn't like the rules as written. He began his eventually successful efforts to have the rules changed mid-season as early as the season opener. >>Source<<

Like it or not, the precedent has been created for mid-season rule changes, Mercedes helped get this genii out of the bottle and its a little rich for them to deny other teams the same process.

[What's Burning?]

Let's all agree to wait till Silverstone. If five or six engines blow up dramatically at speed, then they're indeed unsafe and should be changed. Otherwise, let's just allow time and hard work and planning by Renault and Ferrari to develop to where Mercedes is today.

[LewEngBridewell]

I think if Ferrari were in Mercedes position they wouldn't be saying anything or holding any rash meetings.
Pathetic!

True!

[CookinFlat6]

This gets more and more ridiculous, the rules are to be changed, not on safety grounds but because the Ferrari fans are sick of seeing the team lose

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has been openly critical of the new sport, arguing the fuel saving aspect is damaging the spectacle. Mercedes has defended the new regulations, saying any changes at this stage would be "absurd", but Ecclestone is worried about the public losing interest.

"I think we have to [do something]," he said. "For sure I don't think the way things are at the moment is acceptable to the public. People who buy tickets for here can go somewhere else. They are expecting to see Formula One and what Formula One used to be."

Ecclestone said the new engines are impressive pieces of engineering, but are not what Formula One should be about.

"What is wrong with these fantastic engines? These engines without any doubt are incredible. The amount of power they produce for a small amount of fuel, but I don't think that is Formula One's business. They should be in touring cars or something."

He believes the sound of the turbocharged engines is still the main bugbear, but is also considering Ferrari's proposal of increasing the fuel allowance.

"I think they can do something about the noise," he said. "If they need another 10kg of fuel or something."

He said the rules could be changed without upsetting the competitive order and is convinced Mercedes will get behind the ideas.

"They shouldn't be punished for doing a good job. We shouldn't change the regulations to punish them.

"I think everybody is complaining, even Mercedes. They don't like people not being happy."

[Hammer278]

This gets more and more ridiculous, the rules are to be changed, not on safety grounds but because the Ferrari fans are sick of seeing the team lose

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has been openly critical of the new sport, arguing the fuel saving aspect is damaging the spectacle. Mercedes has defended the new regulations, saying any changes at this stage would be "absurd", but Ecclestone is worried about the public losing interest.

"I think we have to [do something]," he said. "For sure I don't think the way things are at the moment is acceptable to the public. People who buy tickets for here can go somewhere else. They are expecting to see Formula One and what Formula One used to be."

Ecclestone said the new engines are impressive pieces of engineering, but are not what Formula One should be about.

"What is wrong with these fantastic engines? These engines without any doubt are incredible. The amount of power they produce for a small amount of fuel, but I don't think that is Formula One's business. They should be in touring cars or something."

He believes the sound of the turbocharged engines is still the main bugbear, but is also considering Ferrari's proposal of increasing the fuel allowance.

"I think they can do something about the noise," he said. "If they need another 10kg of fuel or something."

He said the rules could be changed without upsetting the competitive order and is convinced Mercedes will get behind the ideas.

"They shouldn't be punished for doing a good job. We shouldn't change the regulations to punish them.

"I think everybody is complaining, even Mercedes. They don't like people not being happy."

Cry me a river



This is Bernie and his mouth working overtime as usual, Mercedes has made zero complaints but I want to see how they tell the whiners and the FIA to shut the f**k up and deal with it. No way are they going to take sh*t from the usual suspects, if things actually get out of hand they can always just tell the FIA to go f**k themselves and quit the sport (Ferraris lame annual threat) leaving 4 teams stranded. The sport can't afford it.

[CookinFlat6]

RBR are a clever bunch of rotters. I bet they have some kind of long game in mind, maybe involving ending up with Merc engines next year. And Ferrari will be left holding the baby as usual. So they run around doing RBRs work then RBR shaft them and make a deal with Merc.

I hope the Merc guys dont fall for any crap like that. The rules can only be changed if all agree, this is all smoke screen towards another end game. The fact Ferrari are making an arse of themselves again with RBR in the background is par for the course

[What's Burning?]

I changed my signature.

[racechick]

I changed my signature.

[CookinFlat6]

I hope that wont be too upsetting to some F1 followers

Funny how the Tifosi, to a man, are either silent on Ferraris inability to compete in an engine formula with drinks companies, or completely supportive of Ferraris efforts to get the rules changed.

But what formula would suit Ferrari? Banish aero, banish turbos, banish ERS, introduce V12s, ban sims, introduce unlimited testing and unlimited spending unless you are a monster car manfacturer as that wouldnt be fair. Maybe some extra money and more vetos on the rules. And maybe Domenically to take over from Bernie like Todt took over from Max

What if RBR still beat them, what then?

[Hammer278]

[CookinFlat6]

I suspect this thread will be locked any minute now and the rules changed to say members are not allowed to 'kick the most powerful brand while they are down'

[spankyham]

I changed my signature.

I changed mine too.