FORUMula1.com

[Stealthgate007]

Honda news

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[scotty]

This is not good news. Not good at all. Honda are loaded, so who will be next to pull out due to the current economic climate?

Also it seems very strange timing, given that they sacrificed this whole season (more or less) to invest time and money into next year's car!!

[Denthúl]

s***.

Guess this is the end for Rubens?

Edit: Of course, that's a selfish view. This could be the first of many teams to withdraw and would spell the end for Formula 1. If Honda, one of the most profitable car manufacturers, are pulling out because the money they are investing is not translating in to success, then what about teams like Toyota, Williams and even Red Bull?

[scotty]

s***.

Guess this is the end for Rubens?

Edit: Of course, that's a selfish view. This could be the first of many teams to withdraw and would spell the end for Formula 1. If Honda, one of the most profitable car manufacturers, are pulling out because the money they are investing is not translating in to success, then what about teams like Toyota, Williams and even Red Bull?

Toyota, BMW and Renault are definately in danger of going if Honda have gone. Maybe Mercedes too.

This is very shocking news, i can't get over it really, there's potentially only going to be 18 cars on the grid in Australia FFS!!!

Best case scenario would be if Prodrive bought them now... but they won't be able to afford it to be realistic.

[Denthúl]

s***.

Guess this is the end for Rubens?

Edit: Of course, that's a selfish view. This could be the first of many teams to withdraw and would spell the end for Formula 1. If Honda, one of the most profitable car manufacturers, are pulling out because the money they are investing is not translating in to success, then what about teams like Toyota, Williams and even Red Bull?

Toyota, BMW and Renault are definately in danger of going if Honda have gone. Maybe Mercedes too.

This is very shocking news, i can't get over it really, there's potentially only going to be 18 cars on the grid in Australia FFS!!!

Best case scenario would be if Prodrive bought them now...

Or maybe if Paul Stoddart considered such a move? He was interested in Super Aguri, although Honda might be a more worth-wile investment, seeing as they have better resources.

I am not entirely sure that BMW and Mercedes are as likely to leave as Honda, for they are successful in the sport and are at least gaining money from their participation. Toyota could stay if they are able to fight for podiums next year, and if Renault have managed to build a car that is as good as the R28 in comparison to the McLaren and Ferrari cars, they could well take the championship if the top drivers make the same kind of mistakes as this year. But I digress. Toro Rosso and Williams are probably the two most likely to be gone in the near future, which is sad.

[scotty]

Well, i see what you are saying, my thinking is that a car manufacturer is a lot more likely to pull the plug to try and save money for their company.

Stoddart may work, although i think he'd need a partner with a very decent amount of cash though.

[EwanM]

The manufacturer era of Formula 1 may be starting to end. Unless these teams get costs down they will seriously not survive. Im not for Standardisation in Formula one, but news like this makes you think that Max's main aim to cut cost considerably is the right one. Teams have been too stubborn towards the FIA and Vias versa. It's time the teams get a greater share in the sports profits, its time that the smaller teams are saved and that Customer cars *gulp* are approved with maybe one or two limitations placed upon them?

Seriously people need to just accept change even if its for the worse in terms of the competition of the sport.

I mean what do we want: A sport or no sport?

If Honda decide to withdraw Toyota will easily follow, and most of the other manufacturers will surely be looking at themselves to see if it is financially viable to continue.

Formula One is riddled with financial crisis. We've already discussed at length the problems Hockenheim and the French Grand Prix has faced in trying to find the money to hold a race. It was always bordering that a team would go, but I suspected Torro Rosso, especially when Red Bull bought Berger out again - it all seemed like they were preparing to sell.
That may still happen, but I did not expect Honda of all teams to exit F1. This is a sad day, and there isn't any realistic manufacturers of privateers who will have the capital to come in and run this team, or create any other teams for that matter. Why have the likes of Audi - power houses in other forms of motorsport - kept away from F1? Because it reeks, and the changes for 2009 should have been enacted much earlier and should have been only the start of more.

People may claim prodrive of stoddart or even someone like Eddie Jordan could come in and take on a team, but there is surely no way they would be able to raise enough money and find the right backing from Engine suppliers to succeed?

I feel sorry for Button and Barrichello if this news is confirmed tommrow. And I feel sorry for all those employees who are set to be made redundant.
But I feel more sorry for all of us, we've lost a legendary marque in terms of F1 success... How many more are we going to lose before F1 sorts itself out?

[Jabberwocky]

as said before, i think this could be the start of the end of the manufacturer era.

I wounder how much the lack of form from honda has effected the decision. if that is the case BMW are the most likely to stay around for the longest.

[7UpJordan]

Bernie needs to stop faffing around with his stupid new medals idea and start working out a solution otherwise he'll have NOTHING and we'll have no F1.

[Denthúl]

This is where a 'class' system becomes a smart move. In a similar style to Le Mans, Formula One could be broken up in to classes. It might not be to peoples' liking, but it is surely a better option for both sides (teams and fans) than a standardised series.

Class A

This would be the top class in the sport and would probably consist of cars built to current specifications. This would, of course, only be a viable option for the bigger, more successful teams. I'd expect BMW Sauber, Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes and Renault to fill this category.

Class B

Running cheaper, less sophisticated cars, this would fit teams with lower budgets and less resources than the four listed above. Williams, Red Bull and Toyota are probably teams I think would fit in here, although the whole grid could probably do so. Engines could be smaller V6s with a much greater level of reliability. Four-race engines and six-race gearboxes would definitely help costs. Other measures such as standardised brake-discs, wheels and off-the-shelf KERS systems being made available would further aid lower-budget teams.

Class C

Class C would be the opportunity for new teams to enter the sport and begin building themselves up to the point where they can move up to one of the higher classes, before the sport returns to the kind of thing we have at the moment once the financial situation settles down. A lot more standardised parts, produced at low-cost, would be available here. Chassis, engine, gearbox, KERS etc. could all be available to buy from a couple of different manufacturers (in the same way that some championships feature a couple of chassis manufacturers, such as Lola and Dallara, and others use a single chassis with multiple engine manufacturers, such as VW and Mercedes). So, basically, a team could enter the sport and build up a car from parts readily available whilst they develop. Of course, as their technical experience expands and their resources grow, they'll want to start building their own cars (or at least, parts of them) and compete with the bigger teams for greater prizes and when (hopefully) the sport returns to its former glory, we'll have larger grids with a good amount of established teams.

Each class would be a separate championship, of course, but all the cars would race on the same track at the same time.

It's not a perfect solution, but surely if someone could enter Class C on, say, a GP2 budget or Class B on something between a GP2 budget and the lower F1 budgets, then that would not only provide some kind of stability for the sport but also incentive for people to join. At least, one would hope so.

[racechick]

What a shock!! That is bad news.

Stoddart has said he will not be party to F1 as long as Max remains there.

[EwanM]

There goes Senna and Di Grassi's chances aswell.

[Jensonb]

I won't waste time typing out my views on F1 as it stands, if you want to see them I posted them here.

What I will say is apparently this is one of those "nominal" sales. Honda may well be willing to sell the Honda Racing F1, Ltd Business, in its entirety, for £1. Of course, the problem's not the business value, but rather how to fund the damn thing - thanks to Honda spending 3 years not thinking about sponsors. Finding a title sponsor in this economic climate will be a bloody nightmare.

[EwanM]

So technically I could buy some of Honda F1 now?

[McLaren Fan]

This is where a 'class' system becomes a smart move. In a similar style to Le Mans, Formula One could be broken up in to classes. It might not be to peoples' liking, but it is surely a better option for both sides (teams and fans) than a standardised series.

Class A

This would be the top class in the sport and would probably consist of cars built to current specifications. This would, of course, only be a viable option for the bigger, more successful teams. I'd expect BMW Sauber, Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes and Renault to fill this category.

Class B

Running cheaper, less sophisticated cars, this would fit teams with lower budgets and less resources than the four listed above. Williams, Red Bull and Toyota are probably teams I think would fit in here, although the whole grid could probably do so. Engines could be smaller V6s with a much greater level of reliability. Four-race engines and six-race gearboxes would definitely help costs. Other measures such as standardised brake-discs, wheels and off-the-shelf KERS systems being made available would further aid lower-budget teams.

Class C

Class C would be the opportunity for new teams to enter the sport and begin building themselves up to the point where they can move up to one of the higher classes, before the sport returns to the kind of thing we have at the moment once the financial situation settles down. A lot more standardised parts, produced at low-cost, would be available here. Chassis, engine, gearbox, KERS etc. could all be available to buy from a couple of different manufacturers (in the same way that some championships feature a couple of chassis manufacturers, such as Lola and Dallara, and others use a single chassis with multiple engine manufacturers, such as VW and Mercedes). So, basically, a team could enter the sport and build up a car from parts readily available whilst they develop. Of course, as their technical experience expands and their resources grow, they'll want to start building their own cars (or at least, parts of them) and compete with the bigger teams for greater prizes and when (hopefully) the sport returns to its former glory, we'll have larger grids with a good amount of established teams.

Each class would be a separate championship, of course, but all the cars would race on the same track at the same time.

It's not a perfect solution, but surely if someone could enter Class C on, say, a GP2 budget or Class B on something between a GP2 budget and the lower F1 budgets, then that would not only provide some kind of stability for the sport but also incentive for people to join. At least, one would hope so.

Good post. I suggested something similar, although in much less detail, whereby the lower classes would not be allowed to compete for the constructors' title. I think it would keep everybody happy. Technology etc. would be a big part of the sport but teams would also be able to compete at sustainable financial levels. A system such as this also proves that Mosley's ideas are not the only way to cut costs.