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[onelapdown]

So Ferrari are threatening to pull out of F1 if the FIA enforces a standard engine in F1. And quite right too.

It's not that I want to see Ferrari out of F1, as tempting as that may be. It's that this goes to the core of the very soul of F1. Since John Cooper decided to put a cheapo engine in the back of a little Cooper chassis, F1 has been about two types of team:
1. Les Garagistes, plucky little British teams for whom chassis is all and engines are stock components you buy in like tyres
2. Ferrari, who see a chassis as simply something to stick an engine in to allow it to move.

This is perhaps an oversimplification but essentially this is the Oxford Cambridge boat race, the Yankees Vs Red Sox, the England Vs Germany at Wembley of F1. The last time an F1 World Title was NOT won by either a British "Garagiste" or Ferrari was 1962, when BRM won (BRM were not garagistes - in my book anyway - and a "Renault" chassis is still a British-built Toleman with a name change)

Where the FIA is right (I am writing a lot of strange sentences today...) is that teams should be able to lower the cost of their engines. The closest thing F1 has had to a standard engine is first the Coventry Climax units of the early sixties and then the Cosworth engines from 1967 onward. In my view, what the FIA needs to do is phrase the engine regulations so that a company such as Cosworth can mass-produce competitive engines at a competitive price, and allow the garagistes to flood back onto the back of the grid. If Ferrari, Mercedes, Toyota, Etc, want to build their own engines, let them. But regulate them in such a way that they don't have too much of a competitive advantage from their additional finances.

Simple.

[AKR]

Toyota and Ferrari have made these comments about threatening to pull out. I am waiting for McLaren-Mercedes to do so as well. Why? Because Mercedes owns around 40 to 50 percent of McLaren and all they do is supply the engines to McLaren. If one standard engine is used, Mercedes will have no role in F1, but own a lot of McLaren. So what are they waiting for? Also if no Toyota and Ferrari for now it means only 16 cars left on the grid. I doubt that will work. Also no Ferrari will mean the loss of a lot of supporters and thus money. I guess Ferrari has a big influence in F1 and it will be because of Ferrari's efforts and protest that perhaps this crazy idea of single engines will eventially be dropped. Although I will find it bizzare if McLaren-Mercedes doesn't protest as well.

[McLaren Fan]

So Ferrari are threatening to pull out of F1 if the FIA enforces a standard engine in F1. And quite right too.

It's not that I want to see Ferrari out of F1, as tempting as that may be. It's that this goes to the core of the very soul of F1. Since John Cooper decided to put a cheapo engine in the back of a little Cooper chassis, F1 has been about two types of team:
1. Les Garagistes, plucky little British teams for whom chassis is all and engines are stock components you buy in like tyres
2. Ferrari, who see a chassis as simply something to stick an engine in to allow it to move.

This is perhaps an oversimplification but essentially this is the Oxford Cambridge boat race, the Yankees Vs Red Sox, the England Vs Germany at Wembley of F1. The last time an F1 World Title was NOT won by either a British "Garagiste" or Ferrari was 1962, when BRM won (BRM were not garagistes - in my book anyway - and a "Renault" chassis is still a British-built Toleman with a name change)

Where the FIA is right (I am writing a lot of strange sentences today...) is that teams should be able to lower the cost of their engines. The closest thing F1 has had to a standard engine is first the Coventry Climax units of the early sixties and then the Cosworth engines from 1967 onward. In my view, what the FIA needs to do is phrase the engine regulations so that a company such as Cosworth can mass-produce competitive engines at a competitive price, and allow the garagistes to flood back onto the back of the grid. If Ferrari, Mercedes, Toyota, Etc, want to build their own engines, let them. But regulate them in such a way that they don't have too much of a competitive advantage from their additional finances.

Simple.

That's a great idea. I think that would keep all parties happy as well. Cosworth were a nifty outfit in their latter days. Despite having a relatively small budget, the quality of their engines was very, very good. On top of producing good engines at a reasonable cost, they have a good Formula One history. It would be great to see them back.

[bud]

Well you can bin the single engine idea. Ferrari have spoken

[McLaren Fan]

Toyota and Ferrari have made these comments about threatening to pull out. I am waiting for McLaren-Mercedes to do so as well. Why? Because Mercedes owns around 40 to 50 percent of McLaren and all they do is supply the engines to McLaren. If one standard engine is used, Mercedes will have no role in F1, but own a lot of McLaren. So what are they waiting for? Also if no Toyota and Ferrari for now it means only 16 cars left on the grid. I doubt that will work. Also no Ferrari will mean the loss of a lot of supporters and thus money. I guess Ferrari has a big influence in F1 and it will be because of Ferrari's efforts and protest that perhaps this crazy idea of single engines will eventially be dropped. Although I will find it bizzare if McLaren-Mercedes doesn't protest as well.

As I said on the other thread, I would rather McLaren-Mercedes said nothing about this until after the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix have been finalised. With Ferrari, for probably the first time ever, disagreeing with the FIA, and with other rumblings of discount, it could be safe for McLaren to say something then. As Ferrari have more votes than anybody else on the WMSC and have been getting backhanders for ages, perhaps the FIA may reconsider things slightly.

[AKR]

Toyota and Ferrari have made these comments about threatening to pull out. I am waiting for McLaren-Mercedes to do so as well. Why? Because Mercedes owns around 40 to 50 percent of McLaren and all they do is supply the engines to McLaren. If one standard engine is used, Mercedes will have no role in F1, but own a lot of McLaren. So what are they waiting for? Also if no Toyota and Ferrari for now it means only 16 cars left on the grid. I doubt that will work. Also no Ferrari will mean the loss of a lot of supporters and thus money. I guess Ferrari has a big influence in F1 and it will be because of Ferrari's efforts and protest that perhaps this crazy idea of single engines will eventially be dropped. Although I will find it bizzare if McLaren-Mercedes doesn't protest as well.

As I said on the other thread, I would rather McLaren-Mercedes said nothing about this until after the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix have been finalised. With Ferrari, for probably the first time ever, disagreeing with the FIA, and with other rumblings of discount, it could be safe for McLaren to say something then. As Ferrari have more votes than anybody else on the WMSC and have been getting backhanders for ages, perhaps the FIA may reconsider things slightly.

You're so convinced a consipracy exists aren't you? Weather McLaren speaks now or after, nothing will happen to them. And it is Ferrari for now that has spoken against the FIA. Maybe the FIA will screw Ferrari over instead? Imagine they did? Then at least we can prove this ridiculous consipracy theory wrong. Either way you're right about McLaren waiting as they would of said something by now. But I would say they are waiting more because the want to consentrate more on the last race and making sure they get it right this time. Remember it is McLaren who hasn't won anything in 9 years so the pressure is on them. (Especially also after this time last season).

[8-ball]

Toyota and Ferrari have made these comments about threatening to pull out. I am waiting for McLaren-Mercedes to do so as well. Why? Because Mercedes owns around 40 to 50 percent of McLaren and all they do is supply the engines to McLaren. If one standard engine is used, Mercedes will have no role in F1, but own a lot of McLaren. So what are they waiting for? Also if no Toyota and Ferrari for now it means only 16 cars left on the grid. I doubt that will work. Also no Ferrari will mean the loss of a lot of supporters and thus money. I guess Ferrari has a big influence in F1 and it will be because of Ferrari's efforts and protest that perhaps this crazy idea of single engines will eventially be dropped. Although I will find it bizzare if McLaren-Mercedes doesn't protest as well.

As I said on the other thread, I would rather McLaren-Mercedes said nothing about this until after the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix have been finalised. With Ferrari, for probably the first time ever, disagreeing with the FIA, and with other rumblings of discount, it could be safe for McLaren to say something then. As Ferrari have more votes than anybody else on the WMSC and have been getting backhanders for ages, perhaps the FIA may reconsider things slightly.

You're so convinced a consipracy exists aren't you? Weather McLaren speaks now or after, nothing will happen to them. And it is Ferrari for now that has spoken against the FIA. Maybe the FIA will screw Ferrari over instead? Imagine they did? Then at least we can prove this ridiculous consipracy theory wrong. Either way you're right about McLaren waiting as they would of said something by now. But I would say they are waiting more because the want to consentrate more on the last race and making sure they get it right this time. Remember it is McLaren who hasn't won anything in 9 years so the pressure is on them. (Especially also after this time last season).

Of course Chris is paranoid and to be honest I can't blame him. But Mercedes will not be any longer interested in F1 if this insane idea by Max goes through.

The FIA will never screw Ferrari but if they did it won't make it any less wrong than the times they screwed McLaren.

[headless]

Somebody asked me what engines I think everyone should run - not that I want single engines - and I said Cosworth.

The guy said "whats that?"

[f1maniac95]

At least teams are speaking out against the proposed standard engine. Mclaren will definately speak out also BMW Sauber and Renault proboboly will because they're actual car companies.

[McLaren Fan]

Of course Chris is paranoid and to be honest I can't blame him. But Mercedes will not be any longer interested in F1 if this insane idea by Max goes through.

The FIA will never screw Ferrari but if they did it won't make it any less wrong than the times they screwed McLaren.

Thank you, 8-Ball, for agreeing that I've reason to want McLaren to say nothing for now. Also, Ron Dennis sometimes is prone to saying things at the wrong time, and this is one of those times!

If this idea does go through, Mercedes will be bloody raging. Whereas other teams can pull out of Formula One, for McLaren it's slightly more tricky. Mercedes, then, could be left with a 40% stake in Formula One team when they really don't want whilst they're not interested in competing in the sport. I suppose they could bide their time until non-standard engines make a return and be contented with the publicity value of being Formula One, or, if they really wanted out of Formula One altogether, the could sell their share of McLaren on to somebody else. If the standardised engines were done away with in future, though, they'd perhaps have to either start their own team up or buy another team, having lost McLaren's facilities and expertise.

I don't see the FIA particularly screwing Ferrari either, but the backhanders could stop, particularly if it would be expedient to support one team or another. The pro-Ferrari and/or anti-McLaren bias will come to an end sometime, no doubt. A lot of who gets special and who gets ill treatment is based on circumstances: things like what the team has to offer and who's in charge of the FIA etc.