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[Gaz]

I feel fine, my teams driver got a dominant win. It's just when you said "that dumb guy puts it in the wall" i assumed you were talking about Massa?

And Mclaren didn't steal any documents one of your old engineers brought them to us, no parts of the F2007 or F2008 have been found on the Mclaren.

So stop chatting son.

dont even bother replying to that s*** Longbow
think Tony is MikeP99 revisited, likes to stir the pot and go fishing in it

yeh he sounds like a poephol rock spider.

[Tony_sa]

ok so now we dont to personal attacks ??? and you think I am going to stoop to your level. so sorry guys. you okes are hurting cos you know so well in the back of your minds how mclaren improved after the spy crap whether you want to admit it or not. AKR says she had enough of your childish behaviour and rather retired while she's ahead. so you suck all round. .. at the risk of belittling myself to do the personal attack thing to prove a point . nah . you take this one

[Gaz]

ok so now we dont to personal attacks ??? and you think I am going to stoop to your level. so sorry guys. you okes are hurting cos you know so well in the back of your minds how mclaren improved after the spy crap whether you want to admit it or not. AKR says she had enough of your childish behaviour and rather retired while she's ahead. so you suck all round. .. at the risk of belittling myself to do the personal attack thing to prove a point . nah . you take this one

Yeh just got board of seeing you post the same stupid statement in 3 threads your not contributing the the discussion its just asking for a fight.

And the so called "personal attack" was just a joke get over it.

[bud]

ok so now we dont to personal attacks ??? and you think I am going to stoop to your level. so sorry guys. you okes are hurting cos you know so well in the back of your minds how mclaren improved after the spy crap whether you want to admit it or not. AKR says she had enough of your childish behaviour and rather retired while she's ahead. so you suck all round. .. at the risk of belittling myself to do the personal attack thing to prove a point . nah . you take this one

personal attacks now youre fishing for sympathy!

[FerrariFan63]

I don't see Massa as being favoured by the FIA. What I do see is Hamilton (and Bourdais, though he's not included in the championship battle) suffering harsh penalties at the hands of the stewards.

And who benefits ?

You're mistaking the result for the motivation. The FIA clearly does not like McLaren. There has been a decision that was either bias or stupidity. Or both. But it's an equally valid hypothesis that if there is bias, it's anti-McLaren rather than pro-Ferrari.

[FerrariFan63]

How Donnelly can defend the poor decisions that have benefitted Massa by comparing them to the clear cut penalties that Ferrari have been handed (as well as some that weren't handed out) is beyond me so sorry Donnelly but that doesn't debunk anything.

It does debunk the lunatic fringe who claim a conspiracy far larger and more deeply ingrained than facts suggest.

[bud]

it's anti-McLaren rather than pro-Ferrari.

then why did Renault receive dubious stewarding and FIA scrutineering in their 06 title fight with Ferrari?

they have always been Pro Ferrari poo they always get the biggest pay cheque just for being around the longest.

[Gaz]

it's anti-McLaren rather than pro-Ferrari.

then why did Renault receive dubious stewarding and FIA scrutineering in their 06 title fight with Ferrari?

they have always been Pro Ferrari poo they always get the biggest pay cheque just for being around the longest.

I'd say both, they hit Mclaren Harder than other teams but let Ferrari off pretty much every time they can

[FerrariFan63]

it's anti-McLaren rather than pro-Ferrari.

then why did Renault receive dubious stewarding and FIA scrutineering in their 06 title fight with Ferrari?

they have always been Pro Ferrari poo they always get the biggest pay cheque just for being around the longest.

Renault have been the benefactors of ambiguous FIA decisions. Alonso was allowed to cut a corner and benefit with no penalty. Renault were not penalised for spying on McLaren.

The same happened last year with Hamilton being winched back onto the track. If that had been a red car being winched back on, the screams of bias would still be bouncing around the known universe.

The FIA is a law unto itself. Mosley's private fiefdom. That's why we need a real motorsports person, Todt, in charge.

[bud]

it's anti-McLaren rather than pro-Ferrari.

then why did Renault receive dubious stewarding and FIA scrutineering in their 06 title fight with Ferrari?

they have always been Pro Ferrari poo they always get the biggest pay cheque just for being around the longest.

Renault have been the benefactors of ambiguous FIA decisions. Alonso was allowed to cut a corner and benefit with no penalty. Renault were not penalised for spying on McLaren.

The same happened last year with Hamilton being winched back onto the track. If that had been a red car being winched back on, the screams of bias would still be bouncing around the known universe.

The FIA is a law unto itself. Mosley's private fiefdom. That's why we need a real motorsports person, Todt, in charge.

Ok you think that but still Renault were not benefitting in 06, right where it mattered, in the title fight against Ferrari! youre giving nothing on that one.....


and your last sentence made me throw up in my mouth! seriously!

[Rorschach]

Todt? No thank you very much. Someone from outside the terrible twosome please - no history or direct links to either Ferrari or McClaren. They don't have a monopoly on experienced, intelligent arbitrators. Not to besmirch Todt's character in any way but someone who is viewed as completely impartial (and is therefore free from having any decision they make called into question, rightly or wrongly) is needed.

[McLaren Fan]

Renault have been the benefactors of ambiguous FIA decisions. Alonso was allowed to cut a corner and benefit with no penalty. Renault were not penalised for spying on McLaren.

The same happened last year with Hamilton being winched back onto the track. If that had been a red car being winched back on, the screams of bias would still be bouncing around the known universe.

The FIA is a law unto itself. Mosley's private fiefdom. That's why we need a real motorsports person, Todt, in charge.

Renault are not being penalised because they are not in the title race. There was nothing wrong with Hamilton being winched back onto the track, for there was nothing in the rules which disallowed it.

Your belief the FIA is biased in one way or another and is a tyrannic regime is completely at odds with your suggestion of putting in Todt in charge. Why get rid of one biased dictator only to replace him with another?

[FerrariFan63]

Todt? No thank you very much. Someone from outside the terrible twosome please - no history or direct links to either Ferrari or McClaren. They don't have a monopoly on experienced, intelligent arbitrators. Not to besmirch Todt's character in any way but someone who is viewed as completely impartial (and is therefore free from having any decision they make called into question, rightly or wrongly) is needed.

I think we need the best man for the job, not a person seen as acceptable to disgruntled fans. Any belief of bias for Todt, or belief of lack of bias for someone else, would easily change with a short time of them working on the job. A season would suffice. But we'd expect a new head of the FIA to be in the job for much longer than one season. Therefore the FIA needs the best person for the job, not someone who is politically expedient.

[McLaren Fan]

Todt? No thank you very much. Someone from outside the terrible twosome please - no history or direct links to either Ferrari or McClaren. They don't have a monopoly on experienced, intelligent arbitrators. Not to besmirch Todt's character in any way but someone who is viewed as completely impartial (and is therefore free from having any decision they make called into question, rightly or wrongly) is needed.

I think we need the best man for the job, not a person seen as acceptable to disgruntled fans. Any belief of bias for Todt, or belief of lack of bias for someone else, would easily change with a short time of them working on the job. A season would suffice. But we'd expect a new head of the FIA to be in the job for much longer than one season. Therefore the FIA needs the best person for the job, not someone who is politically expedient.

The FIA needs completely reformed. There needs to be more checks and balances and Ferrari's majority on the WMSC has to be dissolved for starters. As I said to you before, the FIA and Formula One has an image problem: the sport is seen to be biased by a large section of its fans and the majority of the general viewing public. Appointing Todt, even if he were completely objective, would only make Formula One look even more of a laughing stock.

[FerrariFan63]

Renault are not being penalised because they are not in the title race. There was nothing wrong with Hamilton being winched back onto the track, for there was nothing in the rules which disallowed it.

The Renault spygate issue was decided before the season, when a team which recently won two titles would certainly have still been "in the title race".

And you claim that the more extreme fringe of Ferrari fans are "blind lambs" when they rationalise away any inconsistent behaviour as being somehow correct, e.g. LH's penalty at Belgium. Can't you see that in rationalising away LH being winched back on the track is every bit as bad, and destroys your credibility among objective observers?

Your belief the FIA is biased in one way or another and is a tyrannic regime is completely at odds with your suggestion of putting in Todt in charge. Why get rid of one biased dictator only to replace him with another?

How do you know that Todt would be a biased dictator? That's your unfounded supposition. Todt has not shown signs of being dictatorial during his management of motor racing teams, with MS, Brawn, et. al. being given considerable responsibility, rather than being kept in line.