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#69510
Image
even a vet would have had trouble getting the car in with the rubber completely gone on your rears

McLaren admitted it was a stupid approach in trying to win the GP instead of playing the numbers game

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 5425.shtml



Jeez man, I loathe to disagree with you here...so instead I will toss out an observation that you can make what you will of. First, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7gI5uLMLj8

In my view, Hamilton did not oversteer into the gravel.....meaning his rear tires did not give it up and send him sliding into the gravel pit..nor did they even lock up. He overshot the entrance and his fronts did a little wiggle..then he simply attempted to drive through the gravel. I don't see how rear tire wear would cause this.
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By bud
#69511
you loathe to disagree? so you can gang up with a mod again? :wink:
never said he oversteered mate, he lost it under braking, he couldn't slow the car down in time and ofcourse the rears play a role in braking. no grip he couldnt brake as normal!

It was his misjudgement but more importantly the teams for leaving him on the tyres after the first stop! they didnt need to go for the win there!
#69514
you loathe to disagree? so you can gang up with a mod again? :wink:
never said he oversteered mate, he lost it under braking, he couldn't slow the car down in time and ofcourse the rears play a role in braking. no grip he couldnt brake as normal!

It was his misjudgement but more importantly the teams for leaving him on the tyres after the first stop! they didnt need to go for the win there!


Yes, he did lose it under braking...but it was the fronts that locked up....not the rears. You were stating that the worn rears were the cause of his difficulty and I was explaining that if that was the case it would be the rears that locked up...not the fronts. Which is what anybody who has ever driven on the track would tell you. You can blame the team if you like, but it is the driver who overstepped his ability. Hamilton is not the only guy to enter the pits on worn out tires...

As to the mod crack, nobody ganged up on you. You shot yourself in the foot there. On the contrary, it seems fairly obvious that you have been using a relationship of yours to allow you to abuse anyone you please on this forum. Last week, you didn't like my sig, and sent me a PM about it and then asked me on the forum if I recieved your PM. I told you to take a leap. 5 minutes later I get a PM from the Forum Queen telling me to change my sig. Coincidence? I doubt it. You have a guardian angel it would appear. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but you certainly aren't the victim of someone else ganging up on you. You were acting like a jerk, and a mod told you to stop...and you basically called him out...knowing your angel would come to your rescue. You were right of course and she did, but you can't cry the victim for something you instigated.
User avatar
By bud
#69515
so you're saying the rears play no role when braking? Haha

Yes you're very bright I dobbed you in! And yes I thought you yanks understood baseball? 3 strikes you're out I must have been playing cricket I was out after 1 ! But that's cool I'm a jerk and you're a model forum user I guess!
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By AKR
#69520
This image says it all.

Image

Go to hell Lewis Hamilton! Nigel Mansell was better than Lewis Hamilton. At least Nigel Mansell can say he has won a World Championship. Now comparing himself to Senna, that is plain dumb. I guess that is what you expect to hear from a dumb person like Lewis Hamilton anyway......................
By juggles
#69522
Yet again everyone's taking a very dubious article extract as an excuse to slate Hamilton for any number of reasons. Billindenver's managed to come back yet again to the China pitlane incident as the thing which proves Hamilton's an average driver. Keep it up, you're making perfect sense.

I'm sorry but I think the chances of him actually saying this are close to 0%. I don't know, maybe he allows himself to think it, but he would never come out straight and say 'I'm as good as my hero.' He has enough media training for a start, but more simply than that I just couldn't see him saying time and time again how Senna is the greatest driver of all time and a personal hero, and then go and say something which is so disrespectful. The media make things up all the time; but as we know for some people on this forum, a minute not spent slating Hamilton is a minute wasted.

This is of course all based on the fact that he didn't say this. If he actually did, that's a completely different story.
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By welshie
#69524
Yet again everyone's taking a very dubious article extract as an excuse to slate Hamilton for any number of reasons. Billindenver's managed to come back yet again to the China pitlane incident as the thing which proves Hamilton's an average driver. Keep it up, you're making perfect sense.

I'm sorry but I think the chances of him actually saying this are close to 0%. I don't know, maybe he allows himself to think it, but he would never come out straight and say 'I'm as good as my hero.' He has enough media training for a start, but more simply than that I just couldn't see him saying time and time again how Senna is the greatest driver of all time and a personal hero, and then go and say something which is so disrespectful. The media make things up all the time; but as we know for some people on this forum, a minute not spent slating Hamilton is a minute wasted.

This is of course all based on the fact that he didn't say this. If he actually did, that's a completely different story.


:clap::clap::thumbup:
User avatar
By welshie
#69525
so you're saying the rears play no role when braking? Haha

Yes you're very bright I dobbed you in! And yes I thought you yanks understood baseball? 3 strikes you're out I must have been playing cricket I was out after 1 ! But that's cool I'm a jerk and you're a model forum user I guess!


I seem to remember reading somewhere that the rears account for between 20-30% of the braking bais. That is a huge loss in stopping power when your rear tyres are down to the canvas.
User avatar
By bud
#69530
so you're saying the rears play no role when braking? Haha

Yes you're very bright I dobbed you in! And yes I thought you yanks understood baseball? 3 strikes you're out I must have been playing cricket I was out after 1 ! But that's cool I'm a jerk and you're a model forum user I guess!


I seem to remember reading somewhere that the rears account for between 20-30% of the braking bais. That is a huge loss in stopping power when your rear tyres are down to the canvas.

and when in the wet you increase the rear bias to stop oversteer so lewis may have had 40% at the rears
User avatar
By welshie
#69533
so you're saying the rears play no role when braking? Haha

Yes you're very bright I dobbed you in! And yes I thought you yanks understood baseball? 3 strikes you're out I must have been playing cricket I was out after 1 ! But that's cool I'm a jerk and you're a model forum user I guess!


I seem to remember reading somewhere that the rears account for between 20-30% of the braking bais. That is a huge loss in stopping power when your rear tyres are down to the canvas.

and when in the wet you increase the rear bias to stop oversteer so lewis may have had 40% at the rears


Good point, I hadn't considered that! :yes:
By Gaz
#69535
This image says it all.



Go to hell Lewis Hamilton! Nigel Mansell was better than Lewis Hamilton. At least Nigel Mansell can say he has won a World Championship. Now comparing himself to Senna, that is plain dumb. I guess that is what you expect to hear from a dumb person like Lewis Hamilton anyway......................


For a start it proberly isn't true and some Media BS.

And there's no use calling him Dumb lol because hes alot richer than you.

You have issues to go off one one like that especialy since senna didn't even drive for your beloved Ferrari.
#69538
so you're saying the rears play no role when braking? Haha

Yes you're very bright I dobbed you in! And yes I thought you yanks understood baseball? 3 strikes you're out I must have been playing cricket I was out after 1 ! But that's cool I'm a jerk and you're a model forum user I guess!


I seem to remember reading somewhere that the rears account for between 20-30% of the braking bais. That is a huge loss in stopping power when your rear tyres are down to the canvas.

and when in the wet you increase the rear bias to stop oversteer so lewis may have had 40% at the rears


True, but you are not understanding the basics of traction. In order for worn rears to have caused that off, the worn rears would have had to lose traction. That means a lock up and they didn't do that. You can clearly see as much on the video. Also, if he had moved bias to the rears, they would have locked first...and they didn't. Perhaps that is the mistake he made, but the footage clearly shows a front end lockup...with the rears tracking as they should. Continuously claiming the rears had something to do with that off just shows you have never turned a lap in anger yourself...certainly not in a car with adjustable bias. The rears didn't take him off...he over estimated the grip level in the pit lane based on how dry the track was. Driver error. The funniest thing about your steadfast belief it was the team's mistake...is that Hamilton himself after the race said it was 100% his fault.

If you lived anywhere near me, I would be happy to put a worn set of rears on the race car, set the bias rearward, bolt the passenger seat in..strap you in that and then show you what happens when rear tires cause an off...then you would understand why watching that video tells a driver it wasnt the rears that caused that. A worn tire causing an off happens all the time..but in order for that to be the case that tire has to lose traction, being that traction is a tire's only purpose. If it still has traction..the state of its wear is irrelevant.

In the end result that was just one of several basic mistakes Lewis has made. Mistakes at the limit, as I said, are expected...otherwise we wouldn't call it the limit, but pit lane mistakes (as a driver) and mistakes made on straights (running over Alonso) are not expected and are simply a sign of a rookie trying to get control of himself and maintain concentration. It is common, natural and to be expected. It doesn't make Hamilton any worse than every other rookie out there...but what those mistakes do show is that any comparison of Hamilton to Senna AT THIS POINT....are ill founded, which of course is the topic of this thread. I am not in any way saying Hamilton has no skill, nor am I abusing him..what I am saying is that he has shown nothing at this point to warrant being mentioned in the same breath as the almighty Senna.
User avatar
By bud
#69539
bill ive never turned a lap in anger? :rofl: nice another sly dig from you, youre good at them, youre good at pissing people off and to the untrained eye its un noticeable then you go and call people jerks when they retaliate!

nice work AGAIN:thumbup:

but then look at this
It was his misjudgement but more importantly the teams

I did say he misjudged it you see thus his fault :wink:

but i still think youre pushing your anti Lewis propaganda with you not taking the rears into account as it is debatable from that video as it also looks that the rear gives way just before the camera changes from the rear view to the front view!

all in all we are arguing over the rear tyres that were down to metal like the fronts were grippy, they too were balder than Rons head!

but youre some racer who obviously has done enough in his life to pass judgement over Lewis. thats obvious from your "i race" attitude you put out there!
User avatar
By racechick
#69545
you loathe to disagree? so you can gang up with a mod again? :wink:
never said he oversteered mate, he lost it under braking, he couldn't slow the car down in time and ofcourse the rears play a role in braking. no grip he couldnt brake as normal!

It was his misjudgement but more importantly the teams for leaving him on the tyres after the first stop! they didnt need to go for the win there!


Yes, he did lose it under braking...but it was the fronts that locked up....not the rears. You were stating that the worn rears were the cause of his difficulty and I was explaining that if that was the case it would be the rears that locked up...not the fronts. Which is what anybody who has ever driven on the track would tell you. You can blame the team if you like, but it is the driver who overstepped his ability. Hamilton is not the only guy to enter the pits on worn out tires...

As to the mod crack, nobody ganged up on you. You shot yourself in the foot there. On the contrary, it seems fairly obvious that you have been using a relationship of yours to allow you to abuse anyone you please on this forum. Last week, you didn't like my sig, and sent me a PM about it and then asked me on the forum if I recieved your PM. I told you to take a leap. 5 minutes later I get a PM from the Forum Queen telling me to change my sig. Coincidence? I doubt it. You have a guardian angel it would appear. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but you certainly aren't the victim of someone else ganging up on you. You were acting like a jerk, and a mod told you to stop...and you basically called him out...knowing your angel would come to your rescue. You were right of course and she did, but you can't cry the victim for something you instigated.


You had no right to take things I had written out of context and use them in your signature. I tried to remove it myself but couldnt and was going to ask a mod to do it but it was removed anyway. Basic forum etiquette mate!
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