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[Jabberwocky]

It is more of an 'easy' conquest stereotype.

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[CookinFlat6]

Just been reminded of a really funny joke I heard recently - what does an essex girl use to keep her ankles warm?
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.her knickers

Oh no Essex girls jokes this is going to end badly lol

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reckon we gonna need a seperate thread

[CookinFlat6]

It is more of an 'easy' conquest stereotype.

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Its hardly a stereotype, there are pages of stats and research data confirming the truth

[What's Burning?]

Oh, essex.... in that case it's like Staten Island.

[Roth]

When unsure of what your eyes and common sense are pointing out is sometimes the best time to actually look at the facts for some help.

You are not sure if Nicos potential pace shouldnt be expressing itself more with Nico maybe out performing Lewis? And you say its the fault of the mistakes, and without them ....

The facts tell us that superior pace or not, anytime they have both started on the front row, Lewis has won, except Monaco which is hard to overtake, which could explain that glaring discrepency in so many samples.
The percentage of races Lewis has won when he finished would be 100% without the Monaco one and the 2 races where he had mechanical failure in quali or early in the race
Nico has not once passed Lewis fairly on track - not once, whether faster slower or whatever
Nico has had an extra 25 points for inheriting a win from Lewis dnfing as well as 20 points from Lewis finishing 3rd instead of first twice due to starting at the back.
the race tally is 9-3 Lewis has done better than Nico by 200% despite above facts

So the evidence tells us that even if Nico is faster in quali or in the race he will only win if Lewis starts from the back or dnfs or is in Monaco

Yet you are not sure if Nico wouldnt be 'giving Lewis a tougher time' if he didnt keep making mistakes?

mistakes generated as a function of less racecraft and having to take unorthodox gambles to try reverse the stats above?

good work sherlock

It's not about beating, it's clear who is in the ascendency, it's about keeping Hamilton honest which by and large he has in normal races. That's what I want to see.

He clearly struggles in inter conditions, that's why I said dry.

Since the break we haven't been allowed to see that through a couple of his small but costly errors or technical issues.

Again you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You can't say Hamilton wins every encounter, assume he would have won all the maybes too, then want Nico to prove himself in a straight fight, refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say, you know what, i reckon he would have given it a fair go. Like Hamilton earlier in the seaon these silly little errors of desperation are really hurting him, which is a shame.

It's called discussing the possibilities, and the frustration of it not happening, not stating Nico would have defintely won. But as usual you can't help but be a bit of an arse about it.

[CookinFlat6]

but but but, roth, you do know that there can only be 1 winner right? In a race the fun bit hardly lasts right till the end, most of the time the better player or runner asserts himeself at some point and the other throws everything he has and falls short?

You are requesting they have an equal fight for the last 3 races? or it would be fair? so if 2 runners are equal and have drama but the better one starts to finally pull away towards the end after a hard fought battle, you would say nah the guy had an easy run it wasnt fair i wanted to see what the other guy could do without the mistakes borne of the final stand before capitulation

[CookinFlat6]

roth, what is your take on Nicos mental disposition over the last 4 races - I think he is beaten mentally - what do you think? do you think he is displaying the same weakness mentally Lewis was when he was behind and making little mistakes or would you say Nico is showing more strength????

[Roth]

but but but, roth, you do know that there can only be 1 winner right? In a race the fun bit hardly lasts right till the end, most of the time the better player or runner asserts himeself at some point and the other throws everything he has and falls short?

You are requesting they have an equal fight for the last 3 races? or it would be fair? so if 2 runners are equal and have drama but the better one starts to finally pull away towards the end after a hard fought battle, you would say nah the guy had an easy run it wasnt fair i wanted to see what the other guy could do without the mistakes borne of the final stand before capitulation

Well I would have to wait and see wouldn't I, cookie. I don't pre-plan my reaction like you, setting aside a bit of post-race flog time.

[What's Burning?]

roth, what is your take on Nicos mental disposition over the last 4 races - I think he is beaten mentally - what do you think? do you think he is displaying the same weakness mentally Lewis was when he was behind and making little mistakes or would you say Nico is showing more strength????

It's not about Nico's small mistakes that can be seen as mental crack in his otherwise steely methodical armor. It's that now the momentum has moved over to Lewis, so how can Nico compete against that?

You guys crack me up, this is how a forum should work, point counterpoint, punch counter punch.

[Roth]

roth, what is your take on Nicos mental disposition over the last 4 races - I think he is beaten mentally - what do you think? do you think he is displaying the same weakness mentally Lewis was when he was behind and making little mistakes or would you say Nico is showing more strength????

Well, cookie, I'm glad you asked.

Ever since Spa there's been a subtle shift. Hamilton has gained a fraction, Rosberg lost a fraction. He is facing something similar to Hamilton's misfortunes
and trying too hard to compensate with aggressive out of character moves. He struggled to overtake Hamilton earlier in the season so thinks he has to
push harder, brake later, whatever it takes, to make passes, putting him out of his comfort zone.

I wouldn't say he was mentally beaten, but he does look increasingly weary, and the first time stress of being at the pointy end of a WC race is
piling up - hence the errors. He knows he only has himself to blame; a small example would be he's locked his brakes too many times this season for
that not to be a mental issue. Which is understandable. He's up against a slightly better all round driver, so has to be on the top of his game. WC run-ins
are a mental game as much as anything though, and credit to Hamilton for upping his when it matters most. But the recent lack of raceday pressure is
probably making it a lot easier than it should be, like Hamilton made it for Rosberg earlier in the season. It hands a sort of momentum which the other
driver will take until it's halted by internal or external pressures. The backing of the team seems to matter a lot to these two, so I think there's all sorts
of stuff going on behind closed doors related to that we don't see.

Rosberg's learning from this, so will try to eliminate these issues next year. He'll concentrate on why he's struggling to overtake or whatever he
sees as areas of weakness, and take confidence from areas he's strong in, like qualifying.

[Roth]

I watched that movie last night for the first time. What a masterpiece. So many great lines. Props to Eli Wallach, he carried it for me.

[CookinFlat6]

roth, what is your take on Nicos mental disposition over the last 4 races - I think he is beaten mentally - what do you think? do you think he is displaying the same weakness mentally Lewis was when he was behind and making little mistakes or would you say Nico is showing more strength????

Well, cookie, I'm glad you asked.

Ever since Spa there's been a subtle shift. Hamilton has gained a fraction, Rosberg lost a fraction. He is facing something similar to Hamilton's misfortunes
and trying too hard to compensate with aggressive out of character moves. He struggled to overtake Hamilton earlier in the season so thinks he has to
push harder, brake later, whatever it takes, to make passes, putting him out of his comfort zone.

I wouldn't say he was mentally beaten, but he does look increasingly weary, and the first time stress of being at the pointy end of a WC race is
piling up - hence the errors. He knows he only has himself to blame; a small example would be he's locked his brakes too many times this season for
that not to be a mental issue. Which is understandable. He's up against a slightly better all round driver, so has to be on the top of his game. WC run-ins
are a mental game as much as anything though, and credit to Hamilton for upping his when it matters most. But the recent lack of raceday pressure is
probably making it a lot easier than it should be, like Hamilton made it for Rosberg earlier in the season. It hands a sort of momentum which the other
driver will take until it's halted by internal or external pressures. The backing of the team seems to matter a lot to these two, so I think there's all sorts
of stuff going on behind closed doors related to that we don't see.

Rosberg's learning from this, so will try to eliminate these issues next year. He'll concentrate on why he's struggling to overtake or whatever he
sees as areas of weakness, and take confidence from areas he's strong in, like qualifying.

do you think Lewis or Nico is mentally stronger roth, for once just grab your balls in your hand and jump
When Lewis was behind you told us Lewis was mentally weaker than Nico and that it was a career long mental weakness
We have now seen Nico display a wider range of symptoms
Who is stronger mentally roth?

[CookinFlat6]

You guys crack me up, this is how a forum should work, point counterpoint, punch counter punch.

or in a few exceptions point, blahblahblah, point etc

and sometimes point, silence, new rules, pms, tears, sulk, then finally 'pls refer to my answer given in the private lounge'

[Roth]

do you think Lewis or Nico is mentally stronger roth, for once just grab your balls in your hand and jump
When Lewis was behind you told us Lewis was mentally weaker than Nico and that it was a career long mental weakness
We have now seen Nico display a wider range of symptoms
Who is stronger mentally roth?

Didn't I just write a whole post about this? Goodness, you're slow on the uptake.

It's not that simple. Just because your world view decrees absolutes and jettisons subtlety doesn't mean mine does; this isn't kids' world,
it's the horrible adult world which is a bit more complex. So I'm not going to sooth you to sleep by saying, it's all right, cookie, my sweet,
Nasty Nico's turned into a nutbag, Lewis is our Fairy Prince.

[overboost]

I'm loving the sport, I'm loving the fact that a team was able to follow the agreed upon rules and produce a working engine as opposed to begging and pleading for a do-over. I'm hoping to see those hoping for do-overs to have a crakingly powerful engine come 2015 as there is nothing... absolutely nothing preventing teams from changing up to HALF OF ALL ENGINE COMPONENTS FOR PERFORMACE GAINS!

Any manufacturer that shows up next season complaining about engines has to be incompetent.

There's a lot of things that the primadonnas screaming murder about engines this year won't tell you... like how do you handle an engine that was used at the begining of the season and slated for re-use at the end of the season, like teams often do. They don't tell you who'd pay for that, or how you'd mix and match updated and non updated components amongst the haves and have nots. Irrelevant really, as to why would anyone demand the rules be changed mid season... especially after being so vociferous about rules being changed mid season in the past. It's almost hypocritical, but I guess passion (or a burning buttons) overrules logic.

I'm enjoying this season, but I'm enjoying more the pain and suffering of the sour grapes as they are slowly churned into bitter second rate wine.

What's that? Remove the engine freeze, it's unfair. We can't compete without it.

I am glad you seem content with this 'freeze dried' version of F1 where technological advancement is to be stunted and the real competition is all wrapped up in pre-season testing.

But for those who would wish for the teams to actually compete all season race to race against each other, a group made up of mostly fans of racing instead of contrived rules, this is just the slow death of F1. Today's race was just another example of how dominant Mercedes is and how poor the racing is - Rosberg went from last place to finish second behind the sister car. Mercedes doesn't even need to show up for qually to finish one-two.

Mercedes is now set to veto in season upgrading of the engines no doubt because they are afraid of competition. It seems that they will protect their desire to win championships offtrack even if it will destabilize F1.

I can't wait to hear them try and explain their position it should be quite entertaining.

ps. Just be prepared for Wolfe to do the quickest flip-flop ever if Hondalonso is kicking his bottom next year.