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[spankyham]

Nobody's mentioned the Grosjean penalty. A minor incident that got him penalty points on his license. Even the five-seconds penalty was harsh, but both is just bizarre.

These tight little chicanes are causing the stewards a lot of confusion. It's not sending a clear message to the drivers.

My initial reaction was racing incident and, although I only watched it once after that, I still feel the same way.

[Roth]

There were more aggressive overtakes there (a very late Rosberg on Bottas was noteable) so maybe they are now being harsh on contact. Then it's who ran into whom, and did so and so leave room.

Cockamamie rules.

[CookinFlat6]

Just been reminded of a really funny joke I heard recently - what does an essex girl use to keep her ankles warm?
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.her knickers

[CookinFlat6]

And I want the championship decided fairly too, and we got a lot of ifs and buts again from Rosberg concerning potential pace he would have had
without things getting in the way. I want the dry race scenario and no mistakes for him to prove it. Which I realise is hand in glove because sometimes
he makes the errors that take that simple scenario away, so it's his own fault, but I believe Hamilton wouldn't be having such an easy ride of late without
them, especially on tracks where Hamilton hasn't had a clear advantage. There's only Monza of late where Hamilton had it in the bag regardless.
Yesterday was hard to tell because they were on different strategies, quali was close, and those FP times weren't fully representative.

When unsure of what your eyes and common sense are pointing out is sometimes the best time to actually look at the facts for some help.

You are not sure if Nicos potential pace shouldnt be expressing itself more with Nico maybe out performing Lewis? And you say its the fault of the mistakes, and without them ....

The facts tell us that superior pace or not, anytime they have both started on the front row, Lewis has won, except Monaco which is hard to overtake, which could explain that glaring discrepency in so many samples.
The percentage of races Lewis has won when he finished would be 100% without the Monaco one and the 2 races where he had mechanical failure in quali or early in the race
Nico has not once passed Lewis fairly on track - not once, whether faster slower or whatever
Nico has had an extra 25 points for inheriting a win from Lewis dnfing as well as 20 points from Lewis finishing 3rd instead of first twice due to starting at the back.
the race tally is 9-3 Lewis has done better than Nico by 200% despite above facts

So the evidence tells us that even if Nico is faster in quali or in the race he will only win if Lewis starts from the back or dnfs or is in Monaco

Yet you are not sure if Nico wouldnt be 'giving Lewis a tougher time' if he didnt keep making mistakes?

mistakes generated as a function of less racecraft and having to take unorthodox gambles to try reverse the stats above?

good work sherlock

[What's Burning?]

Summary of Sochi.

1) Lewis looking very champion like.
2) Rosberg looking very much like a guy trying to guess the pin code to a stolen ATM card.
3) Nobody, I mean no body was going to call Putin's baby ugly yesterday. One lap of racing is all we got.
4) Apply penalties or don't apply penalties for questionable incidents. Can't have both. It's the single worst issue in the sport.

Now let's go back to talking about how great Lewis is.

[overboost]

he was able to turn those fastest laps at the end of the race on incredibly old tires Nico might have had the winning setup today. Opportunity missed.

are you saying he might have had the winning setup today i.e. his car was was faster than Lewis' because Nico was able to set fastest laps in the fastest car at the end of the race???



Nicos car was faster than lewis' because Nicos setup was better with tyres?? or because he almost set a fastest lap? (Bottas did btw), one question, did the gap between Nico and lewis decrease or did it stay around the same for the last 10 laps or so, another question - why did Nico not steadily reduce the gap on Lewis if his setup was faster and he had less tyure deg (ROFL)

(I cant wait for this reply, one cannot pay for comedy gold like this anymore)

You seem to have quoted only half of what I said.

My point Cookin is that Nico was very fast on tires that were 25 laps older than all the other cars he was racing against so obviously he was very quick and had a great setup, and if he hadn't made his bonehead error at the second corner and taken an easy pass for the lead with Hamilton leaving the door wide open I think it would have been a simple victory for him. With passing being relatively hard Hamilton would have been stuck in second. Rosberg could also have played a bit of a tactical game by pushing Lewis back onto Bottas which would have further compromised his racing.

Unfortunately for Nico he may have handed Hamilton the championship with that amateur hour lockup. What a gift.

[Hammer278]

You seem to have quoted only half of what I said.

My point Cookin is that Nico was very fast on tires that were 25 laps older than all the other cars he was racing against so obviously he was very quick and had a great setup, and if he hadn't made his bonehead error at the second corner and taken an easy pass for the lead with Hamilton leaving the door wide open I think it would have been a simple victory for him. With passing being relatively hard Hamilton would have been stuck in second. Rosberg could also have played a bit of a tactical game by pushing Lewis back onto Bottas which would have further compromised his racing.

Unfortunately for Nico he may have handed Hamilton the championship with that amateur hour lockup. What a gift.

Could you enlighten us on how you're so sure that Hamilton would not have been able to match Nicos pace had the need arisen?

Or you just know it....because Nico set the fastest lap. Oh wait... he didn't a WILLIAMS did. Yes, so this must mean Bottas had race winning pace and if only he had pushed harder he might have even won! Now THAT's a missed opportunity for you.

*Donk*.

[What's Burning?]

the pass couldn't have been that easy, otherwise he'd have made it stick. oh well, Lewis is leading the championship by a healthy margin and the only thing that will take it away is a catastrophic failure leading to a DNF in Abu Dhabi while the more talented Nico wins the race.

I can live with that outcome were it come to fruition. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I'm still supporting Lewis taking Nico out in turn one and walking over to get the trophy. Dapperly dressed in a Hugo Boss suit of course.

[CookinFlat6]

With passing being relatively hard Hamilton would have been stuck in second

[overboost]

Excellent drive from Bottas and a good recovery drive from Rosberg to finish where he started.

Rosberg must be kicking himself for the bonehead mistake at the 2nd corner, especially as he was able to turn those fastest laps at the end of the race on incredibly old tires Nico might have had the winning setup today. Opportunity missed.

All in all another extremely boring race ruined by the Merc domination and made worse by a bad tire selection by Pirelli. Please FIA take the engine freeze rules away and let the teams design the best engines they can without fear of penalties. It is ruining the racing!

Not ruining it as much as the go slow exploding tyres, but yes, I agree they got the choice wring today. And you know I can understand the frustration that the team you support were maybe unable to produce a good engine with all that time they were given. Life's such a bitch sometimes.

Now the winning set up thing, you haven't considered that Lewis wasn't actually racing Rosberg? He was controlling the race? IE he was winning at the slowest speed necessary to win, with an eye on car and engine preservation? No? Just a thought.

To me something is fundamentally wrong when mechanics and engine designers are told to that they are not allowed to touch their engine and continuously improve their design to make it competitive. Severe penalties would be issued just for doing your job!

Having this false, FIA mandated Mercedes domination by eliminating competition just makes for a forgotten season. Very similar to 2009 except then the other teams were at least able to make it interesting in the second half. This season nothing can be done.

And yes the way the race developed with Rosberg giving himself a 25 second or more penalty it did allow Hamilton to the opportunity manage the gap at the end. But Rosberg was did surprisingly well on those old tires, even Hamilton commented to that effect. Had Nico taken the lead at the start I don't think Hamilton could have done much about it, very similar to Monaco.

[overboost]

You seem to have quoted only half of what I said.

My point Cookin is that Nico was very fast on tires that were 25 laps older than all the other cars he was racing against so obviously he was very quick and had a great setup, and if he hadn't made his bonehead error at the second corner and taken an easy pass for the lead with Hamilton leaving the door wide open I think it would have been a simple victory for him. With passing being relatively hard Hamilton would have been stuck in second. Rosberg could also have played a bit of a tactical game by pushing Lewis back onto Bottas which would have further compromised his racing.

Unfortunately for Nico he may have handed Hamilton the championship with that amateur hour lockup. What a gift.

Could you enlighten us on how you're so sure that Hamilton would not have been able to match Nicos pace had the need arisen?

Or you just know it....because Nico set the fastest lap. Oh wait... he didn't a WILLIAMS did. Yes, so this must mean Bottas had race winning pace and if only he had pushed harder he might have even won! Now THAT's a missed opportunity for you.

*Donk*.

Hamilton had good pace as well and could have matched Rosberg, but with the passing being difficult at Sochi I don't believe he could have gotten past.

Regarging Bottas - Put him the Mercedes and he would have won!

[What's Burning?]

I'm loving the sport, I'm loving the fact that a team was able to follow the agreed upon rules and produce a working engine as opposed to begging and pleading for a do-over. I'm hoping to see those hoping for do-overs to have a crakingly powerful engine come 2015 as there is nothing... absolutely nothing preventing teams from changing up to HALF OF ALL ENGINE COMPONENTS FOR PERFORMACE GAINS!

Any manufacturer that shows up next season complaining about engines has to be incompetent.

There's a lot of things that the primadonnas screaming murder about engines this year won't tell you... like how do you handle an engine that was used at the begining of the season and slated for re-use at the end of the season, like teams often do. They don't tell you who'd pay for that, or how you'd mix and match updated and non updated components amongst the haves and have nots. Irrelevant really, as to why would anyone demand the rules be changed mid season... especially after being so vociferous about rules being changed mid season in the past. It's almost hypocritical, but I guess passion (or a burning buttons) overrules logic.

I'm enjoying this season, but I'm enjoying more the pain and suffering of the sour grapes as they are slowly churned into bitter second rate wine.

What's that? Remove the engine freeze, it's unfair. We can't compete without it.

[Jabberwocky]

Just been reminded of a really funny joke I heard recently - what does an essex girl use to keep her ankles warm?
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.her knickers

Oh no Essex girls jokes this is going to end badly lol

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

[CookinFlat6]

And yes the way the race developed with Rosberg giving himself a 25 second or more penalty it did allow Hamilton to the opportunity manage the gap at the end. But Rosberg was did surprisingly well on those old tires, even Hamilton commented to that effect. Had Nico taken the lead at the start I don't think Hamilton could have done much about it, very similar to Monaco.

There was zero deg, you should invest $10 or so in bernies F1 ap for live timings, its now even got team radio. Apart from proper fuel usage ithas all the data you would need to make informed judgements and avoid the gaps that can occur without the data.

Tyre deg comes from the tyre wearing down through abrasive contact with the tarmac. this is likely to do with the inefficiency of old surfaces, where the smooth man made asphalty stuff has become overpowered by nature in the form of stones andturf pushing and all sorts of otherthings in the ground making a bid for frreedom. So this deg comes from the road not working as well as it was designed - to be even smooth and consistent. This consistency is mana from heaven to rubber. and just like your road car an F1 car can go for miles and miles before the road has worn the rubber to the point that tyre performance suffers, at that point you dont have much rubber left and are down to the other stuff which dont reall go fast.

That track was brand new, there were no bumps from frass trying to come out, there waere no exposed little stones , in fact it was like a carpet.

Now, I was watching the lap times very closley, and I can report that lewis had zero deg (no drop at all in laptime) till he changed to the medium, and again no deg rite till the end - he also made some purple sectors in the last couple of laps, so did Nico. Bottas suffered some deg before his pitstop and didnt rag the tyres so much on the second stint. So the Mercs both had zero deg. Nico overheated his tyres a few times thru bad racecraft causing a drop in performance but as soon as he wised up and didnt work em round the corners the performance came right back

So I am afraid to have to educate you on the basics, but neither driver suffered any noticeable deg. Its possible bot drivers could have gone on for another 50 laps - we dont know this. So to say Nico had a good setup you would have to show that he was able to close the gap to Lewis - he wasnt Lewis responded at will - not to Nico closing but to Nico trying to get away from Bottas

oh yeah Lewis was surprised by the tyres not by Nico

Why pursue argumentum ad ignorantiam when, you could actually talk with knowledge just by taking the time to think things through?

[What's Burning?]

Just been reminded of a really funny joke I heard recently - what does an essex girl use to keep her ankles warm?
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.
.her knickers

Oh no Essex girls jokes this is going to end badly lol

I feel so left out... are essex girl jokes your equivalent of our blond jokes?