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[Hammer278]

I wasn't saying their mandate was to always have an Italian TP, just that they preferred to have one to carry over from the Todt/Brawn/Michael era.

[CookinFlat6]

This is not Ferrari where 1 family or 1 guy can run around employing Italians only

This is deliberately and patently not true.

You're smart enough to be aware of this while at the same time realizing you will curry favour from those who dislike Ferrari and relish any opportunity to vent that dislike.

There was talk of a silent mandate after the Todt era of employing Italians in the roles vacated
Here is the Ferrari fans forum discussing if there was a silent mandate and rejoicing that if there was it had been abandoned

Therefore your claim of currying favour from those who dislike Ferrari is an overreaction as all I have done is parallel some of the beliefs of Ferrari fans themselves. If Ferrari fans can speculate about why not others?

American F1 announcer Bob Varsha said he watched an interview Luca did on an American PBS series "The Charlie Rose Show" and said Luca had made the statement that he "wants Ferrari to be an Italian team".

This is the basis of speculation about the silent mandate and as such is a valid subject to bring up when mentioning that Ferraris ownership structure would allow this to happen where another teams wouldnt

theforce
5th January 2012, 11:43
The reshuffling at Ferrari continues and they have snapped up a number of former McLaren employees, according to a report.

The Maranello squad have been well off the pace of Red Bull the past few seasons and the team have responded by making changes to their technical department over the past year or so.

Pat Fry, who worked for McLaren from 1993 until 2010, was appointed technical director for the chassis division midway through 2011 and since then several former Woking employees have made their way to Ferrari.

According to F1 journalist Joe Saward's blog, "a number of aerodynamicists, notably senior aerodynamicist Rupad Darekar, who has worked at McLaren for the last 10 years" have joined Ferrari.

"He is joined by Greece's Ioannis Veloudis, Italy's Giacomo Tortora and Britain's Lawrence Hodge. In addition to these engineers Fry has also lured away Jonathan Heal, a senior stress engineer at McLaren for the last seven years."


Good to have some more talent on board:-)
impactX
5th January 2012, 12:14
Nice... we have now snapped up all the talents to "copy" other teams' designs or get other teams' ideas banned.
Hermann
5th January 2012, 12:29
I like it, maybe the 'purists' won't, but you will agree when we start winning races regularly
Suzie
5th January 2012, 15:42
This at least will help put to bed all the accusations that Luca is trying to make the team 100% Italian... 'spaghetti culture', Mr Lauda?
impactX
5th January 2012, 23:04
^ That was 1 or 2 years ago. After another fail year, may be he realized Italianizing the team wouldn't be such a brilliant idea? It's not too late yet though.

Is this acceptable spanky or are you saying F1 fans must stop discussing Ferrari exactly like their own fans do?

[spankyham]

@cookin you have just posted a lot of words, none of which I find speak to what I picked you up on.

You claimed "Ferrari run around employing Italians only". A straight out untruth.

[CookinFlat6]

You claimed "Ferrari run around employing Italians only".

nope, I didnt

This is not Ferrari where 1 family or 1 guy can run around employing Italians only

Can run around, with CAN been the operative word. Mercs structure doesnt allow that, whereas Ferraris seems to. Whether 1 guy DID run around employing Italians only is fairly speculated about by Ferrari fans amongst others.

If you had bothered to read and understand my post you would have noticed the source of the original speculation - An American Tv show that Luca appeared on

To be honest I expect more from you Spanks, I am not sure at all what leg you are standing on. At Ferrari 1 guy can run around as it has been reported in the press that he said he would.
We are not even discussing if it happened or if it was a coincidence etc.

It could have happened and Ferrari fans openly discuss it so I am sorry but you are either not getting something or refusing to get something

[spankyham]

A whole lot more words then we get this

It could have happened ..

So you're happy with people talking here about anything that "could" have happened or "could "happen" about other teams and drivers including your favorites? They can say what they like as long as its couched with a "it could happen" or "it could be true". I don't think so.

It would have been far easier and more noble to admit your error.

[CookinFlat6]

I would expect from certain members who cant get their heads around intricate and complex points to start moaning about circular discussions or to change the focus but I would expect you to admit to your small mistake. Like I said if you just want to say others should not discuss points Ferrari fans themselves discuss because they are bound to be more negative, then say so, but dont be mentioning blatant untruths - maybe mention uncomfortable reading for Ferrari fans

For the last time - this is how it happened;

Ferrari fan - Merc could favour Nico as he is German
F1 fan - Merc AMGs ownership structure would make that hard to do as an unwritten mandate. However Ferraris structure could allow it to happen
Ferrari fan - how dare you say Ferrari employ only Italians, everyone hates Ferrari boo hoo, you are lying, Ferrari never employed only Italians
F1 fan - calm down dear, there has been speculation about a silent mandate from Luca to try and employ Italians in all the key roles following the Todt/MS era. This followed comments he made on a US tv show about doing this. This proves the Ferrari structure would allow it if Luca choose to carry it out
Ferrari fan - you are wrong full stop, have the decency to admit it
F1 fan - wrong about what exactly?
Ferrari fan - Im closing the thread

[What's Burning?]

This is not Ferrari where 1 family or 1 guy can run around employing Italians only

This is deliberately and patently not true...

Apparently, the truth is boring and doesn't make big, splashy headlines!

but on,y when it's one's own team that's being thruthed though.

How did THIS thread turn into an argument?

[Hammer278]

A whole lot more words then we get this

It could have happened ..

So you're happy with people talking here about anything that "could" have happened or "could "happen" about other teams and drivers including your favorites? They can say what they like as long as its couched with a "it could happen" or "it could be true". I don't think so.

It would have been far easier and more noble to admit your error.

The key point you're probably missing is the management structure at Ferrari vs Merc. Ferrari does have a head honcho, that old Luca dude who has a hell of a lot of power to do what he wants with the team. Strong rumours during the ending of Todt's era about wanting an Italian TP and ignoring another brilliant non-Italian guy's interest for the job is a big clue. Further clue being that same non-Italian guy leaving the team and not on good terms right before Domenicalli was announced as TP.

At Merc, it's not just Merc they're managed by Daimler. We have a lot of board members (non Germans included) who decide how much they get to loosen their purse strings for the race team. It's a different environment, which is why 1 man's vision/greed/bias/whatever you like will not significantly influence how the race team is run.

The style of management in these two teams is completely different and as an avid Ferrari fan you'd get what Cookin originally meant, which was not just 'a lot of words' what do you want, pics or soundbites? lol

[What's Burning?]

Anyway... Getting back to the interesting stats. Vettel's numbers are going to take quite a tumble down the list this year. Perhaps retirement is in the cards so he retains his "legacy"?

[racechick]

Anyway... Getting back to the interesting stats. Vettel's numbers are going to take quite a tumble down the list this year. Perhaps retirement is in the cards so he retains his "legacy"?

It's been mentioned by Marco that he would understand if Vettel left if the car doesn't sort out. It's in a thing I posted in the GP thread.

[CookinFlat6]

I think Red Bull are also likely to quit the sport if things dont improve quickly. The massive amounts of money they spend has been justified by winning and receiving a big part of the pot, and ofcourse extorting large amounts from the likes of Infinity
Infinity are off and so Red Bull will have to inject a lot more funds at a time they are likely to be at the back struggling.
Would not surprise me if they cut their loss and left, afterall they are not a car company with interests beyond selling fizzy drinks. Not like Merc, Ferrari or McLaren who stick around through the bad times (and some without even threatening to leave)

[What's Burning?]

Anyway... Getting back to the interesting stats. Vettel's numbers are going to take quite a tumble down the list this year. Perhaps retirement is in the cards so he retains his "legacy"?

It's been mentioned by Marco that he would understand if Vettel left if the car doesn't sort out. It's in a thing I posted in the GP thread.

because stats are very important to some people.

[Hammer278]

I think Red Bull are also likely to quit the sport if things dont improve quickly. The massive amounts of money they spend has been justified by winning and receiving a big part of the pot, and ofcourse extorting large amounts from the likes of Infinity
Infinity are off and so Red Bull will have to inject a lot more funds at a time they are likely to be at the back struggling.
Would not surprise me if they cut their loss and left, afterall they are not a car company with interests beyond selling fizzy drinks. Not like Merc, Ferrari or McLaren who stick around through the bad times (and some without even threatening to leave)

Or runs out of race team funding after 2015 and sells it off cheaply to anyone who would buy it and .....















BMW

[NHcheese]

Then red bull will be the second most successful team after brawn.

[sagi58]

I did say 'silent' mandate. The talk in the paddock reg Domenicalli being hired as TP in the first place was due to his nationality. Even when Todt was team boss, the rumours going around were about an "Italian TP" being a prerequisite, way before Domenicalli's name was mentioned. Are you saying you missed all this?

I'm not looking for any articles or websites stating this, it's very old news and even if I find it you'll counter with 'it's just an opinion/a rumour/etc" you can't find concrete proof of mandates which aren't black and white.

Then again, I'm not here to convince you....I'm 100% sure of how and why Domenicalli was hired, and it certainly wasn't because of his track record...which was nil. While Brawn was a key architect in their straight 5 year success. Also a telling sign is the 'falling out' of Brawn and Ferrari just before the Domenicalli announcement. But maybe Brawn was just pissed because they were not willing to change the flavouring of their pasta. Who cares, I for one was glad Brawn didn't get the post since it meant less success for Ferrari.

To satisfy my own curiousity, I did search for articles/websites that mentioned this "silent" mandate of which you speak,
only to come up empty. Rumours are oftentimes just that: empty of truth.

Secondly, I looked into Domenicali's history with Ferrari and it turns out that before he was Team Principal, he was the
Team Manager, Sporting Director, he also worked in administration, human resources, and he oversaw sponsors, which
would suggest that he had an extensive knowledge of the workings/philosophy of Ferrari, thus it was a "natural" next
step for him to become Team Principal. That is, he worked his way up. Nothing wrong with that, as it happens in the
"real" world, all the time that people with little or no expertise/experience in on field are successful because of the
previous experience they have within the same organization.

Scumi moved on. Todt moved on. Brawn moved on. Schumi eventually came back. Todt became president of the FIA.
Brawn started up his own team. What's the problem with believing it was little more than a natural progression?