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[darwin dali]

How can you say that? Your last statement? Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton haven't driven it, so you're guessing.

You are right in this statement. No one knows how they would drive the RB9. But you say that Hamilton wouldn't do something like this.......almost like putting telemetry up on twitter because he was acting like a child? Maybe hamilton has matured this year? Seemed to have improved with his attitude some. Got more points in my book with his comments on the podium last weekend! Reality is that the Redbull team made a bad decision wanting to leave Webber in front of Vettel with a lot of race left. Just like the Merc team did the same not letting Rosberg through. Every point counts seeing how close it was last year. Vettel needs the points more than Webber since he is the only one that can compete with the top drivers and RB didnt lose anything with the switch of positions. The old saying "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" holds true. Anyways, it was the best battle of the race!

"Its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"
Rosberg asked for permission and missed a place on the podium
Vettel asked for forgiveness and won the race........

Surely Vettel is not a man of god, but well I'm pretty sure this adapted approach works pretty well in F1, and he's gonna get more WDC then anyone with the I wait my turn attitude.


I mean seriously, is there someone who still believes that Webber or Massa still are going to have their turns to drive for WDC? When you end up in the supporting puppy role, it's pretty much impossible to get out of there.

If its that important to him he has to disobey his team and cheat his team mate, he's welcome to his championships. .He's the one who has to look at himself in the mirror and know how he got those points.

So will LH.

[Hammer278]

The question is, does Vettel ever care about looking into a mirror?

I don't think so...a person who cares about that stuff might've thought a little bit more before making that move. For some people, winning isn't everything...it's the only thing. He's an ultra competitive guy and puts success before ethics and what not, lets admit it, it pays off more than it should in today's world.

As Singaporesling said, if you are happy to be stuck in the waiting for my turn role, you might never get your turn. It's like the friendzone. Maybe tougher, since other team bosses see you being the safety net for a lead driver and your image is stuck that way.

All in all, from my perspective Vettel did what is best for Vettel. I don't believe he regrets his actions, but he regrets the fuss and the drama which comes with it. I think all this is only going to make him drive even faster come China and make sure he doesn't get in the same 'hold station' soup again. Wish Webber would prove me wrong though.

[racechick]

How can you say that? Your last statement? Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton haven't driven it, so you're guessing.

You are right in this statement. No one knows how they would drive the RB9. But you say that Hamilton wouldn't do something like this.......almost like putting telemetry up on twitter because he was acting like a child? Maybe hamilton has matured this year? Seemed to have improved with his attitude some. Got more points in my book with his comments on the podium last weekend! Reality is that the Redbull team made a bad decision wanting to leave Webber in front of Vettel with a lot of race left. Just like the Merc team did the same not letting Rosberg through. Every point counts seeing how close it was last year. Vettel needs the points more than Webber since he is the only one that can compete with the top drivers and RB didnt lose anything with the switch of positions. The old saying "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" holds true. Anyways, it was the best battle of the race!

"Its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"
Rosberg asked for permission and missed a place on the podium
Vettel asked for forgiveness and won the race........

Surely Vettel is not a man of god, but well I'm pretty sure this adapted approach works pretty well in F1, and he's gonna get more WDC then anyone with the I wait my turn attitude.


I mean seriously, is there someone who still believes that Webber or Massa still are going to have their turns to drive for WDC? When you end up in the supporting puppy role, it's pretty much impossible to get out of there.

If its that important to him he has to disobey his team and cheat his team mate, he's welcome to his championships. .He's the one who has to look at himself in the mirror and know how he got those points.

So will LH.

Yep. But he may feel a little easier about what stares back at him.

[stonemonkey]

How can you say that? Your last statement? Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton haven't driven it, so you're guessing.

You are right in this statement. No one knows how they would drive the RB9. But you say that Hamilton wouldn't do something like this.......almost like putting telemetry up on twitter because he was acting like a child? Maybe hamilton has matured this year? Seemed to have improved with his attitude some. Got more points in my book with his comments on the podium last weekend! Reality is that the Redbull team made a bad decision wanting to leave Webber in front of Vettel with a lot of race left. Just like the Merc team did the same not letting Rosberg through. Every point counts seeing how close it was last year. Vettel needs the points more than Webber since he is the only one that can compete with the top drivers and RB didnt lose anything with the switch of positions. The old saying "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" holds true. Anyways, it was the best battle of the race!

"Its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"
Rosberg asked for permission and missed a place on the podium
Vettel asked for forgiveness and won the race........

Surely Vettel is not a man of god, but well I'm pretty sure this adapted approach works pretty well in F1, and he's gonna get more WDC then anyone with the I wait my turn attitude.


I mean seriously, is there someone who still believes that Webber or Massa still are going to have their turns to drive for WDC? When you end up in the supporting puppy role, it's pretty much impossible to get out of there.

If its that important to him he has to disobey his team and cheat his team mate, he's welcome to his championships. .He's the one who has to look at himself in the mirror and know how he got those points.

So will LH.

That wasn't his decision and probably isn't the way he wants to score points at this stage.

[SingaporeSling]

How can you say that? Your last statement? Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton haven't driven it, so you're guessing.

You are right in this statement. No one knows how they would drive the RB9. But you say that Hamilton wouldn't do something like this.......almost like putting telemetry up on twitter because he was acting like a child? Maybe hamilton has matured this year? Seemed to have improved with his attitude some. Got more points in my book with his comments on the podium last weekend! Reality is that the Redbull team made a bad decision wanting to leave Webber in front of Vettel with a lot of race left. Just like the Merc team did the same not letting Rosberg through. Every point counts seeing how close it was last year. Vettel needs the points more than Webber since he is the only one that can compete with the top drivers and RB didnt lose anything with the switch of positions. The old saying "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission" holds true. Anyways, it was the best battle of the race!

"Its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"
Rosberg asked for permission and missed a place on the podium
Vettel asked for forgiveness and won the race........

Surely Vettel is not a man of god, but well I'm pretty sure this adapted approach works pretty well in F1, and he's gonna get more WDC then anyone with the I wait my turn attitude.


I mean seriously, is there someone who still believes that Webber or Massa still are going to have their turns to drive for WDC? When you end up in the supporting puppy role, it's pretty much impossible to get out of there.

If its that important to him he has to disobey his team and cheat his team mate, he's welcome to his championships. .He's the one who has to look at himself in the mirror and know how he got those points.

Well it depends what's the motivation of the driver. If it's just a job and he is happy to drive on F1 or if you are driven to win? 10, 20 or 30 years later the 2nd drivers are totally forgotten and champions' names will still be written on the statistics. Next generation of followers don't know how the drivers won it, they just see a number to beat. Sad but to be successful in F1 has no correlation with being a nice person.

What ever is said about Vettel how competitive he is on the track, off the track he seems to be one of the nicest and least arrogant of the drivers.

If Webber ever wants to win he should stop playing the victim game. He's played against team orders himself as pointed out times here. That might get him some sympathy back in Australia and in English speaking press, but certainly not gonna help you to win, or convince anyone to give you a seat in top team if you lose RB seat.

[SingaporeSling]

As Singaporesling said, if you are happy to be stuck in the waiting for my turn role, you might never get your turn. It's like the friendzone. Maybe tougher, since other team bosses see you being the safety net for a lead driver and your image is stuck that way.

Exactly, when that role is stamped on your forehead in F1 it is close to impossible to get rid off it. First impressions matter. For a first year rookie, it might be acceptable but not after that.

Does anyone think that Lewis would be where he is now, if he has quietly settled down to be Alonso's 2nd driver during his first season. No way, if that had happened Alonso would have stayed at Mac, and Lewis wouldn't have his WDC at all.

[andrew]

Well it depends what's the motivation of the driver. If it's just a job and he is happy to drive on F1 or if you are driven to win? 10, 20 or 30 years later the 2nd drivers are totally forgotten and champions' names will still be written on the statistics. Next generation of followers don't know how the drivers won it, they just see a number to beat. Sad but to be successful in F1 has no correlation with being a nice person.

Plenty of F1 drivers seem to be perfectly nice chaps away from the F1 paddock. However, it is a competitive situation on-track (not a hippie free love convention) with the sole objective to win. You don't get anywhere by being a nice person (unless you don't want to win).

If Webber ever wants to win he should stop playing the victim game. He's played against team orders himself as pointed out times here. That might get him some sympathy back in Australia and in English speaking press, but certainly not gonna help you to win, or convince anyone to give you a seat in top team if you lose RB seat.

True that. Had it been Webber disobeying team orders we'd have seen numerous reports about how he's getting one over on the nasty German and good on him etc etc. You'll never get rid of the anti-German bias of the British F1 media.

[racechick]

A few points to answer there.

The reason people tend to side with the likes of Webber , is they know they're not only fighting their team mate but also the team. The same was true with Schumacher. Unfair odds.

No, Lewis wouldn't roll over and play second fiddle to Alonso, but it wasn't Lewis that asked for number one status, it was Alonso, Lewis wanted then what he wants and has asked for now, equality. And I don't think anyone looks at Lewis and says he's a nice guy who can't win.

Stirling Moss is considered a great and he's never won a championship, and that's going back quite a bit. He's still remembered as a great. It's not all about numbers and notches on a bedpost.

It's not always what you do but the way you do it. That's a pretty good quote too.


Finally, I'm afraid I disagree on Vettel, I think he's one of the most arrogant and considers himself above the team.


EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

[Hammer278]

Nice post RC! I guess that's why different drivers attract the following of different fans.

[CookinFlat6]

A few points to answer there.

The reason people tend to side with the likes of Webber , is they know they're not only fighting their team mate but also the team. The same was true with Schumacher. Unfair odds.

No, Lewis wouldn't roll over and play second fiddle to Alonso, but it wasn't Lewis that asked for number one status, it was Alonso, Lewis wanted then what he wants and has asked for now, equality. And I don't think anyone looks at Lewis and says he's a nice guy who can't win.

Stirling Moss is considered a great and he's never won a championship, and that's going back quite a bit. He's still remembered as a great. It's not all about numbers and notches on a bedpost.

It's not always what you do but the way you do it. That's a pretty good quote too.


Finally, I'm afraid I disagree on Vettel, I think he's one of the most arrogant and considers himself above the team.


EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

Webber would be feeling too sorry for himself and playing the poor victim to rise to the occasion anyhow

[schumifan]

A few points to answer there.

The reason people tend to side with the likes of Webber , is they know they're not only fighting their team mate but also the team. The same was true with Schumacher. Unfair odds.

No, Lewis wouldn't roll over and play second fiddle to Alonso, but it wasn't Lewis that asked for number one status, it was Alonso, Lewis wanted then what he wants and has asked for now, equality. And I don't think anyone looks at Lewis and says he's a nice guy who can't win.

Stirling Moss is considered a great and he's never won a championship, and that's going back quite a bit. He's still remembered as a great. It's not all about numbers and notches on a bedpost.

It's not always what you do but the way you do it. That's a pretty good quote too.


Finally, I'm afraid I disagree on Vettel, I think he's one of the most arrogant and considers himself above the team.


EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

Im not sure he considers himself above the team. He is one of the most engaged drivers with his team in F1. The first thing he does is congratulate his team on the radio. I do believe though that he considers himself above Webber just like Alonso does Massa. I would too. Webber hasn't accepted his role yet and will be out of RB this season. If SV leaves for Ferrari, RB will bring up the two torro rosso drivers and not waste their time on Webber. Just like we make decisions in our lines of work that go against what our bosses said but if you really believe its the best decision, then you make it. The decision by the team did not make sense and they weren't looking at the importance of every point in the drivers champ. That would have lost him the drivers title last year if this had happened early in the season and he listened. It does look bad for the team but looking at the constructors title and drivers title, Webber should have been told to move over and hold 2nd. Im not saying SV is clear of any wrong doing, just that the rewards of winning that race outweighed the strain on an already poor relationship with Webber.

[stonemonkey]

EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

He'd have to offer an apology to seb after.

[Hammer278]

Unfortunately for Mark, I think Vettel has never had a girlfriend in his life.

....

[racechick]

EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

He'd have to offer an apology to seb after.

He could say it but not mean it

[stonemonkey]

EDIT: I quite like Clarkson's idea
https://twitter.com/jeremyclarkson/stat ... 8187819008

He'd have to offer an apology to seb after.

He could say it but not mean it

Or say he did it by mistake.