FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[bud]

How can people say team orders should not exist!!! What if the mechanics don't put fuel in the car because they do not want to follow orders. Not bleed the brakes, only hand tighten the bolts I am sure Seb would complain then.

Seb is an employee, a very well paid employee. He should do as his employer requests.

in your job what would happen if you disobeyed a direct order ?

In your job, what would happen if your lesser performing colleague disobeyed a direct order on three separate occasions, and you do it once?

To be fair to Webber he has to fight for his rights within the team compared to Vettel who inherently gets preferential treatment, Even before Seb won a title! Swapping wings, not getting behind him when he was in a better position for the title. When guaranteed if it was reversed Webber would have been told to back him!

But hey at least Webber says it how it is, Vettel saying he didn't know just doesn't sit right. A bit gutless actually, why not just say I ignored the orders because I wanted to win? I'd have more respect if he did!

[mnmracer]

How can people say team orders should not exist!!! What if the mechanics don't put fuel in the car because they do not want to follow orders. Not bleed the brakes, only hand tighten the bolts I am sure Seb would complain then.

Seb is an employee, a very well paid employee. He should do as his employer requests.

in your job what would happen if you disobeyed a direct order ?

In your job, what would happen if your lesser performing colleague disobeyed a direct order on three separate occasions, and you do it once?

To be fair to Webber he has to fight for his rights within the team compared to Vettel who inherently gets preferential treatment, Even before Seb won a title! Swapping wings, not getting behind him when he was in a better position for the title. When guaranteed if it was reversed Webber would have been told to back him!

But hey at least Webber says it how it is, Vettel saying he didn't know just doesn't sit right. A bit gutless actually, why not just say I ignored the orders because I wanted to win? I'd have more respect if he did!

Wow, you mention two things, one of which didn't even disadvantage Webber, in 38 races before the title.
I am convinced! [/sarcasm]
Did you know who the first Webber-Vettel teamorder was given to? I'll help you, he isn't Australian.

Not to mention you avoid the point in case.

[PartsaS]

As fans we should demand proper racing between all drivers at all times...
Team orders work for the teams but not for the fans, and we are the customers!.

F1 was about ultimate speed, racing to the limit, now its about tactics and saving tires, and bringing the cars safe to the flag without fights between teammates.
Yes it's a team sport (WCC) but as long as we have WDC, The fastest man overall should win the championship, not the one who has been offered places and points by his teammate. Will it be ok with everyone if Hamilton wins this years championship with the difference made just with the points he gained with Nico's 3rd place ?
Team orders (the ones applied to the drivers that affect grid potition) are against racing. How exciting is having a parade of cars just driving safely to the flag?
team orders = legal cheating for WDC

ps I can't understand how people are so negative towards Vettel. What he did was good for us, and bad for his ''employer''s, but his employers exist because of us...

[bud]

I haven't missed any point mnmracer, just sayin it like it is, you know the Aussie way!
But you obviously think Webber is on equal terms with Vettel and Vettel is a favourite of helmut deutscher markos so ill leave it there.

[mnmracer]

I haven't missed any point mnmracer, just sayin it like it is, you know the Aussie way!
But you obviously think Webber is on equal terms with Vettel and Vettel is a favourite of helmut deutscher markos so ill leave it there.

And Webber is favorite of Dietrich. Again, you feel to make a point, Aussie or not.

[CookinFlat6]

And now Jenson has waded in, saying team orders should be obeyed and that Seb will get 'hurt'

The same Jenson who told us he would quit F1 if team orders were reinstated

The same Jenson who ignored 'save fuel' orders and then claimed he hadnt been told, then changed his story afterwards

I really dont understand why Webber is whinging so much, even his father has had to get involved to chastise Seb. If Webber deserved to win why didnt he just take the place back, he tried but couldnt.

At least Lewis took the place back when Jenson tried to stitch him.

[Hammer278]

And now Jenson has waded in, saying team orders should be obeyed and that Seb will get 'hurt'

The same Jenson who told us he would quit F1 if team orders were reinstated

The same Jenson who ignored 'save fuel' orders and then claimed he hadnt been told, then changed his story afterwards

I really dont understand why Webber is whinging so much, even his father has had to get involved to chastise Seb. If Webber deserved to win why didnt he just take the place back, he tried but couldnt.

At least Lewis took the place back when Jenson tried to stitch him.

LIke I always said, Button would be a fantastic politician. Don't be surprised if he becomes team boss of McLaren one day (Whitmarsh might just allow it) and runs McLaren into the ground as Lauda did with Jaguar.

[CookinFlat6]

He'd have to dig them out of the ground first, thats where Whitmarsh will leave the team, followed by his successor Sam Michaels, Button will be lucky to find anything left

[bud]

I haven't missed any point mnmracer, just sayin it like it is, you know the Aussie way!
But you obviously think Webber is on equal terms with Vettel and Vettel is a favourite of helmut deutscher markos so ill leave it there.

And Webber is favorite of Dietrich. Again, you feel to make a point, Aussie or not.

If that were true, Mark isn't being a very good advisor now is he...

[mnmracer]

Much is said about the 7 points and how he might need the engine/gearbox later on.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if you think about it, he might also need those 7 points later on.

Now he 'stressed the engine' for 3/4 laps to gain 7 points.
If he 'needs the engine for later', how realistic is it that he could earn those 7 points again with just 3/4 laps worth of 'engine stress'.
How many battes are won in 3/4 laps? Because he was side-by-side with Webber, this might have been the 'easiest' (in terms of engine stress) way to earn 7 points in the entire year. This could mean that he won't be battling Alonso/Hamilton/Kimi for 10 or 20 laps in a later race, and if he ends up still having to battle, it means that he would be screwed without these 7 extra points.

[hirstes]

i think the team orders were brought about by 2 very irritating reasons. first off the rule that only 8 engines can be used throughout the entire season and that the tires are too finiky (sp?). if the engine rule was not in place would red bull have given the order to turn down the engines so they can save them or let them race because who cares another one can be used if the ones they are using are destroyed? secondly would they have been able to race if the tires arent in need of nursing? if these two factors hadnt been there i would like to think yes they would have been allowed to race.

then there is the mercedes situation. nico not allowed to get past hamilton because, from what i understand, hamilton was ahead most of the race? this is why nico had to stay behind a car in fuel saving mode? i understand that there was really nothing for nico to gain by getting ahead of hamilton but why keep your faster car behind? to me, within a team, the faster car should be first especially if one has to back way off.

[stonemonkey]

I don't think I'm really too bothered by the breaking of team orders, what bothers me more is that Webber obeying team orders would've let his guard down against Vettel and wouldn't have been expecting what Vettel did and Vettel took advantage of that. When Vettel went for it they weren't racing on the terms they should have been.

[What's Burning?]

^^ and that why people bring guns to knife fights.

[andrew]

I usually take a pen to a knife fight.

[What's Burning?]

Once I brought a nail clipper.