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By Martin
#351982
This raises an old point of mine. So, Vettel broke team orders, and, therefore, should suffer some penalty by the team, however, I doubt that he will as long as he is 'protected' by team management, as suggest by Webber. However, that said, the real problem was team orders, I have always disapproved of team orders. The teams are so self interested (understandably - the cars are expensive) and more focused on their sponsors than the fans, but, the only reason that there are sponsors is because there are fans that will see the sponsors brand. No fans = no sponsors, no sponsors = no F1. So we fans are what it is all about. The business, definitely including the FIA, is so inward looking and self interested that we are ignored. What was the best part of the final laps of this race - Webber v Vettel or Hamilton v Rosberg? I know which was most interesting to me. Team orders spoiled the Mercedes race, and would have spoiled the Red Bull race. If team orders had been followed the final laps would have been a 4 car procession, tidy but boring. We pay for racing, not processions dictated by the teams.
Of course the problem has been that there were ways around the rules that the dishonest teams used when it was against the rules. Because there is a way around the rules is not a reason for no rules at all. Bring back no team orders, make it a requirement that every team employee has it in their contract that they must not become involved in any form of team orders, including coded messages, slow pit stops and so on and on. The event is a team sport but there are really 2 teams not one in each garage. Let the drivers race, that is after all what we watch it for is it not? F1 is, after all, just a part of the entertainment industry and, therefore, entertaining the fans should be number 1 priority. :thumbdown:
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By Martin
#351990
Vettel team orders

Postby Martin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:10 pm
This raises an old point of mine. So, Vettel broke team orders, and, therefore, should suffer some penalty by the team, however, I doubt that he will as long as he is 'protected' by team management, as suggest by Webber. However, that said, the real problem was team orders, I have always disapproved of team orders. The teams are so self interested (understandably - the cars are expensive) and more focused on their sponsors than the fans, but, the only reason that there are sponsors is because there are fans that will see the sponsors brand. No fans = no sponsors, no sponsors = no F1. So we fans are what it is all about. The business, definitely including the FIA, is so inward looking and self interested that we are ignored. What was the best part of the final laps of this race - Webber v Vettel or Hamilton v Rosberg? I know which was most interesting to me. Team orders spoiled the Mercedes race, and would have spoiled the Red Bull race. If team orders had been followed the final laps would have been a 4 car procession, tidy but boring. We pay for racing, not processions dictated by the teams.
Of course the problem has been that there were ways around the rules that the dishonest teams used when it was against the rules. Because there is a way around the rules is not a reason for no rules at all. Bring back no team orders, make it a requirement that every team employee has it in their contract that they must not become involved in any form of team orders, including coded messages, slow pit stops and so on and on. The event is a team sport but there are really 2 teams not one in each garage. Let the drivers race, that is after all what we watch it for is it not? F1 is, after all, just a part of the entertainment industry and, therefore, entertaining the fans should be number 1 priority. :thumbdown:
Strive to be fast, strive to be first but, above all, strive to be alive.
Martin

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Martin

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By stonemonkey
#352024
Team orders are legal, completely legal.

To stop stupid things like coded messages happening.

It's easier this way, Redbull can be upfront about it.


'Redbull' and 'upfront' in the same sentence and it's not about leading the race!
#352028
There's a much biggest shitpile than team orders IMO, and that's called the ridiculous nature of the F1 prescribed Pirelli tires. Team orders, is far, far lower on the hit list of things that are detrimental to the excitement of the sport for me.
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By stonemonkey
#352030
That would be in a different topic though.

I still don't know what to make of it, on one hand I would prefer to see them racing to the finish and if Vettels actions could possibly make some way towards that then great, on the other hand it'll probably do nothing except make the teams even more determined to keep the drivers under their control in such situations.
By Hammer278
#352031
I have a real suspicion that these Pirelli "standardized" tyres aren't even standardized. How difficult is it to get a grip on them....I remember a couple of teams commenting that a set of mediums could be very different in nature from another set of mediums. Thus, if you car is great on mediums, it doesn't guarantee it will be as good on the next set. I hope this is just some unwarranted rumour but if it isn't, it really makes the racing a farce.
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By racechick
#352091
There's a much biggest shitpile than team orders IMO, and that's called the ridiculous nature of the F1 prescribed Pirelli tires. Team orders, is far, far lower on the hit list of things that are detrimental to the excitement of the sport for me.

They are SO RIDICULOUS!you spend huge amounts of money and man hours building the best state of the art cars in the world then you stick woodem clogs on the bottom of them so they can't run to their maximum and we don't get to see the best drivers in the world duking it out for all they've got. What is the point of that? :banghead::banghead:
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By scotty
#352111
You know how pretty much every race it's fairly hard to predict the winner out of 5 or 6 (maybe more sometimes) drivers, unlike just a couple of years ago where it was always maybe 2 or 3 only? Yeah, we can thank Pirelli for that huge improvement as fans of the sport. Pirelli haters GTFO :thumbup:
#352124
You know how pretty much every race it's fairly hard to predict the winner out of 5 or 6 (maybe more sometimes) drivers, unlike just a couple of years ago where it was always maybe 2 or 3 only? Yeah, we can thank Pirelli for that huge improvement as fans of the sport. Pirelli haters GTFO :thumbup:


+1, I've always been on the side of Pirelli. :yes:
By andrew
#352164
You know how pretty much every race it's fairly hard to predict the winner out of 5 or 6 (maybe more sometimes) drivers, unlike just a couple of years ago where it was always maybe 2 or 3 only? Yeah, we can thank Pirelli for that huge improvement as fans of the sport. Pirelli haters GTFO :thumbup:


+1, I've always been on the side of Pirelli. :yes:


To be blunt, they're tyres are too fragile. To be fair, they're making what they've been asked to make.

http://www.pitpass.com/48741-Hold-The-Outrage-Easy-On-The-Hypocrisy

The other side of the coin, from an Australian journo at that...


Good find Bud. Thanks for sharing it.
#352169
The right thing to do would have been Webber to adjust those balls of his and do an Istanbul 2010 all over again. We'd never again see the disobedient child.
#352170
You know how pretty much every race it's fairly hard to predict the winner out of 5 or 6 (maybe more sometimes) drivers, unlike just a couple of years ago where it was always maybe 2 or 3 only? Yeah, we can thank Pirelli for that huge improvement as fans of the sport. Pirelli haters GTFO :thumbup:


If for you the excitement of seeing the possible pool of winners grow, at the expense of watching a procession of 6~8 cars not even trying to pass one another because they're in fuel/tire conservation mode for 20% of the race is the pinnacle of motor racing, then you're a better man than I.

When was the last time you saw that happen in LMP cars?
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