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[al4x]

like mine and renault, the recent good times!

yet again its the FIA or whoever to blame having flexy rules!

[texasmr2]

I also want to clarify my view on the subject of this post, for my lack of clarity emerged in talking to DD. Regardless of my own views on tobacco advertising, I believe that if you are going to ban it, it has to be a meaningful ban. As I result, I think it is wrong that those in charge be allow Ferrari to continue to use the bar code, which is just as recognisable as Marlboro's name. You could argue that Ferrari should not push the rules on this subject, given people's health is a moral issue, but its not their fault at the end of the day. I'm just staggered that those in charge have let it happen. Thus, my criticism is not directed at Ferrari per se, but at the authorities.

Very well put mate and I agree, my only disagreement with any post pertaing to this subject was that Ferrari are blatanly cheating, it's the authoritie's that be that are allowing this. That's why I had said earlier in this thread "I wish the FIA would let us know their stance ?".

Gregg

PS,
You apology is the sign of a truelly mature man and is noticed by everyone. That was a very cool thing to do and I personaly thank you .

[racechick]

I also want to clarify my view on the subject of this post, for my lack of clarity emerged in talking to DD. Regardless of my own views on tobacco advertising, I believe that if you are going to ban it, it has to be a meaningful ban. As I result, I think it is wrong that those in charge be allow Ferrari to continue to use the bar code, which is just as recognisable as Marlboro's name. You could argue that Ferrari should not push the rules on this subject, given people's health is a moral issue, but its not their fault at the end of the day. I'm just staggered that those in charge have let it happen. Thus, my criticism is not directed at Ferrari per se, but at the authorities.

Very well put mate and I agree, my only disagreement with any post pertaing to this subject was that Ferrari are blatanly cheating, it's the authoritie's that be that are allowing this. That's why I had said earlier in this thread "I wish the FIA would let us know their stance ?".

Gregg

Well the FIA wont let you know their stance.......on anything, that way when the time suits they can swoop on an innocent party and claim foul play. They make up the rules as they go along putting competitors (well most competitors) in a no-win situation.

PS,
You apology is the sign of a truelly mature man and is noticed by everyone. That was a very cool thing to do and I personaly thank you .

[racechick]

That last post got all screwed up for some reason. Dont know if I did something wrong. Damn me! Its the FIA

[woody2goody]

I wish Ferrari would do what all the other teams are doing and take a moral stance on tobacco advertising. They could make a great statement by getting rid of the Marlboro money.

They could easily get a different title sponsor being the succesful team that they are, so they wouldn't have any money problems. They always seem to resort to bending rules. I know no-one can really do anything about it but it would be nice if they did something as a nice gesture.

After all, McLaren got rid of West before they had to, Renault relinquished Mild Seven, Honda Lucky Strike, Jordan B+H. Ferrari don't need Marlboro to survive.

[woody2goody]

I wish Ferrari would do what all the other teams are doing and take a moral stance on tobacco advertising. They could make a great statement by getting rid of the Marlboro money.

They could easily get a different title sponsor being the succesful team that they are, so they wouldn't have any money problems. They always seem to resort to bending rules. I know no-one can really do anything about it but it would be nice if they did something as a nice gesture.

After all, McLaren got rid of West before they had to, Renault relinquished Mild Seven, Honda Lucky Strike, Jordan B+H. Ferrari don't need Marlboro to survive.

Ferrari are not known for moral stances unfortunately, are they? amoral stances perhaps.
Ferrari should show the FIA as a major sponsor.

Was thinking it but didn't want to say it

[AngelesoinsectoS]

Oh welll I do not see what the big deal with tobacco companies is anyway. It is all a scam. Governments do not care if people smoke or not. They know it is adictive and can make more money from it with all their bullpoo campaigns knowing people will not stop anyway as they are addicted to it. More taxes on cigarattes with the same amount of people smoking means more revenue for the government. I personally couldn't care less as I do not smoke so they can all advertise there cigarrettes anywhere they want and it will mean nothing to me.

That works quite well with you, mate, but not with 13-year-old kids from third world countries, you know...

[texasmr2]

That works quite well with you, mate, but not with 13-year-old kids from third world countries, you know...

There are too many people on their moral high horse's, if a 13yr old want's to smoke they are gonna find a way to do so no matter if it's a third world country or not. What ever happened to 'Pro choice'?

[AngelesoinsectoS]

That works quite well with you, mate, but not with 13-year-old kids from third world countries, you know...

There are too many people on their moral high horse's, if a 13yr old want's to smoke they are gonna find a way to do so no matter if it's a third world country or not. What ever happened to 'Pro choice'?

You wouldn´t advertise cocaine even though it doesn´t kill as nearly as many people as tobacco. I am a smoker, but I think those bar stewards don´t deserve a space to advertise in order to get more people addicted. Specially in 3rd world countries where people are ignorant enough to not know the deal with smoking. You won´t find the SMOKING KILLS thing in the cigarette packs in those countries neither.
I´m up with all drugs being legal and thus their quality legally controlled + supervised and pro-choice s***, but NOT with advertising cancerous drugs.

[texasmr2]

Well atleast we know your stance on this subject.

[Denthúl]

People don't lose control of their actions through smoking tobacco like they do with using many illegal drugs and do something they wouldn't otherwise do. The use of drugs like cocaine and heroin can also lead to many other problems, and the addiction often leaves people resorting to illegal means of getting money, such as stealing and prostitution. And you'd rather have drugs like that legal than allow someone to advertise tobacco?

[AngelesoinsectoS]

That´s two-sided morality, for sure.
alcohol + tobacco, legal drugs, go through quality controls and are distributed even though they create SERIOUS health problems and they destroy people´s lives, specially alcohol.
If every drug was legalized there would be no adulteration and no illegal drug dealers and all that human garbage that feeds on others addiction. And, by the way, there are studies that indicate that over 45% of the youngsters in Spain are consuming cocaine at least once a year, and this increase have not reflected a growth in teen-delinquency.
So, legal drugs are ok, and illegal drugs are not ok? pfff, makes me laugh...

[Denthúl]

That´s two-sided morality, for sure.
alcohol + tobacco, legal drugs, go through quality controls and are distributed even though they create SERIOUS health problems and they destroy people´s lives, specially alcohol.
If every drug was legalized there would be no adulteration and no illegal drug dealers and all that human garbage that feeds on others addiction. And, by the way, there are studies that indicate that over 45% of the youngsters in Spain are consuming cocaine at least once a year, and this increase have not reflected a growth in teen-delinquency.
So, legal drugs are ok, and illegal drugs are not ok? pfff, makes me laugh...

Doubtful. If you consider taxes and a base-price which is almost certain to be considerable to begin with, you would find that the price that the illegal dealers would charge is roughly half. People with an addiction usually try to get the most for their money, so if they could get 1kg of cocaine for the price of 500g, then they would. Simple as. Then you have to consider the fact that there will be a lot of underage users. I could almost guarantee that any government would put a minimum age on the use of these drugs if they were legalised and regulated, most likely 18. There will be a lot of people under that age who would use the drugs, and seeing as they can't buy them legally, would do so illegally, thus leaving them at the same risk as they have now. Same thing with alcohol and tobacco. Here in the UK, the legal age for purchasing tobacco products was raised from 16 to 18. All those who are between 16 and 18 who smoked before still get their cigarettes anyway. Those under 16 still do. Problem solved? No. There are also many, many underage drinkers. Age restrictions are not good enough to protect youngsters properly. There's plenty of evidence to support that.

The time that it takes for cocaine to kill someone can be considerably quicker than the time it takes for tobacco or alcohol to do the same thing. Many users are killed the first time they take the drug. That doesn't happen anywhere near as often with tobacco and alcohol, and the amounts of the latter two that need to be consumed before death occurs is also significantly greater. So yeah, I'd say that the drugs currently considered legal are much closer to okay than those that are illegal, perhaps with the exception of one or two Class C drugs that aren't nearly as lethal nor as potent in terms of their effects on the mind.

Edit: I realise that this is getting way-off topic now...

[texasmr2]

Man this discussion make's me wanna go back to Amsterdam asap !

Edit: I realise that this is getting way-off topic now...

Quite right now back on topic !

[AngelesoinsectoS]

Yeah, cocaine will definately kill you if you snort 20 grams on your first try. Same would happen if you drink 3 bottles of whiskey, don´t you think so? Not a solid point of view... And, btw, I have NEVER EVER heard of a single cocaine consumer getting 1 kg for personal use... they would if their traders...otherwise they´re simply NUTS...