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#286702
I think it should have been: 1. Vettel 2. Alonso 3. Button

The Mclaren was actually a pretty good car. And between JB and Hamilton they got a good number of wins. Massa could not even get a podium, Alonso could have well been leading on the first 10


Of course you'd put Alonso ahead of Button, I'm sure deep down you'd put him ahead of Vettel also :hehe:

But using Massa as a measuring stick here isn't a good choice, as he well and truelly underperformed, Alonso had it easy with him as team mate. :wink:
#286788
Of course you'd put Alonso ahead of Button, I'm sure deep down you'd put him ahead of Vettel also :hehe:


tied for 1st :D

But using Massa as a measuring stick here isn't a good choice, as he well and truelly underperformed, Alonso had it easy with him as team mate. :wink:


Yea, but the Mclaren pair were actually on reasonably similar pace, meaning the car was at least decently balanced. And Hamilton's problems were mostly mistakes; not exactly a car-related issue (like Webber had). They were also ussually on simmilar pace during the races and not that far from RB on Q and the races (minus some couple stints). So you can easily say the Mclaren was a pretty good car... considering its no Red Bull. But ferrari was hardly ever on the same pace of either RB or Mclaren... except in testing.

Anyways.. its weird that Alonso drove unnequivocally better than last yr and lost 2 places, while Hamilton had a "terrible" season and was right behind him; and Button was not overwhelmingly better than the guy who had a terrible season and was ahead......... something doesnt add up. So yeah... better ask Dimontezemolo to see how the correct order goes :hehe:
#286795
But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.

This year he made no mistakes but when youre starting P5 P6 theres less at stake you can take more risks without feer of consiquence. I think we just saw him drive in this manner. While there is no doubting Button was second best this season, not only represented by the points table but by his consistency and also some great wins also having a world champ as team mate makes it a tad harder, even if he was having an off year.

If we want to take this poll on a truelly personal level and see who drove their personal best then hey I'd say Hekki is no.1 not Alonso :wink: by using your method on the cars I'm pretty sure that team Lotus is no Redbull :D
#286841
But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.

This year he made no mistakes but when youre starting P5 P6 theres less at stake you can take more risks without feer of consiquence. I think we just saw him drive in this manner. While there is no doubting Button was second best this season, not only represented by the points table but by his consistency and also some great wins also having a world champ as team mate makes it a tad harder, even if he was having an off year.

If we want to take this poll on a truelly personal level and see who drove their personal best then hey I'd say Hekki is no.1 not Alonso :wink: by using your method on the cars I'm pretty sure that team Lotus is no Redbull :D


Ferrari's strategists gave away the title.
#286852
But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.

This year he made no mistakes but when youre starting P5 P6 theres less at stake you can take more risks without feer of consiquence. I think we just saw him drive in this manner. While there is no doubting Button was second best this season, not only represented by the points table but by his consistency and also some great wins also having a world champ as team mate makes it a tad harder, even if he was having an off year.

If we want to take this poll on a truelly personal level and see who drove their personal best then hey I'd say Hekki is no.1 not Alonso :wink: by using your method on the cars I'm pretty sure that team Lotus is no Redbull :D


Ferrari's strategists gave away the title.


You don't lose a championship in one race...
#286853
I've heard the name for the 2012 Ferrari is going to be the "Ram".


:rofl:

Ferrari's strategists gave away the title.


Well... i'd say it was the mistakes early on.

But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.


And this yr Webber needed something very similar to take what would have been a championship podium finish, in a car that was never matching the pace of Mc or RB. Mclaren were rarely far behind RB, and somtimes were even on better pace.

Heikki had no RB, but he was never in front of one either ;)
#286854
But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.

This year he made no mistakes but when youre starting P5 P6 theres less at stake you can take more risks without feer of consiquence. I think we just saw him drive in this manner. While there is no doubting Button was second best this season, not only represented by the points table but by his consistency and also some great wins also having a world champ as team mate makes it a tad harder, even if he was having an off year.

If we want to take this poll on a truelly personal level and see who drove their personal best then hey I'd say Hekki is no.1 not Alonso :wink: by using your method on the cars I'm pretty sure that team Lotus is no Redbull :D


Ferrari's strategists gave away the title.


You don't lose a championship in one race...


Well with the 3rd best car it was impressive to even be ahead and Vettel was 15(?) points behind so to lose out like that is shocking.
#286855
Heikki had no RB, but he was never in front of one either ;)


Wasn't Webber briefly behind him after his spin that came from contact with Lewis in Canada? :P

But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.

This year he made no mistakes but when youre starting P5 P6 theres less at stake you can take more risks without feer of consiquence. I think we just saw him drive in this manner. While there is no doubting Button was second best this season, not only represented by the points table but by his consistency and also some great wins also having a world champ as team mate makes it a tad harder, even if he was having an off year.

If we want to take this poll on a truelly personal level and see who drove their personal best then hey I'd say Hekki is no.1 not Alonso :wink: by using your method on the cars I'm pretty sure that team Lotus is no Redbull :D


Ferrari's strategists gave away the title.


You don't lose a championship in one race...


Well with the 3rd best car it was impressive to even be ahead and Vettel was 15(?) points behind so to lose out like that is shocking.


Perhaps. But that's just how things go. You could argue that Alonso cost himself the title by crashing out in practice at Monaco; he finished 6th in that race, 7th in Abu Dhabi. The fact is, no single incident is likely to be the cause of a lost championship. Another example is Webber crashing in Korea. Had he not done that, he could easily have gone on to be championship. However he also had poor performances in the first two races of the season where he scored few points, and the collision with Kovalainen in Valencia. Championships are won over a season, lost over a season.
#286856
Wasn't Webber briefly behind him after his spin that came from contact with Lewis in Canada? :P


:eek: the exception makes the rule! :hehe:


Perhaps. But that's just how things go. You could argue that Alonso cost himself the title by crashing out in practice at Monaco; he finished 6th in that race, 7th in Abu Dhabi. The fact is, no single incident is likely to be the cause of a lost championship. Another example is Webber crashing in Korea. Had he not done that, he could easily have gone on to be championship. However he also had poor performances in the first two races of the season where he scored few points, and the collision with Kovalainen in Valencia. Championships are won over a season, lost over a season.


There you go... even with all those mistakes, he was voted "best". This yr, with pretty much flawless driving; and giving some serious fight to the front despite being considerably slower.... he loses 2 positions?

Anyway... this yr, 3 guys improved. Vettel, Button and Alonso. Vettel was perfect so you can say he deserves it. Button was very good, but... he actually didnt do anything extraordinary (shown by how Lewis also got some wins) in a car that was consistently on the pace.

I think Jenson was the big surprise performer; so he got the votes based on the wow factor. While Alonso lost the votes based on the final positions tally.
#286865
I think people cant help but compare a drivers performance with what they expect of that driver, rather than how that driver actually stacks up against other drivers. Therefore if a driver who is usually average does well, even if that 'well' isnt really very astonishing, then he is hailed as a new phenomena. The reverse also applies.
#286867

But how can we be so certain Alonso drove better? Last year he needed a team mate to give him a win then gave away the title to Vettel at the last race, i dont think he deserved to be labelled best last year.


And this yr Webber needed something very similar to take what would have been a championship podium finish, in a car that was never matching the pace of Mc or RB. Mclaren were rarely far behind RB, and somtimes were even on better pace.

Heikki had no RB, but he was never in front of one either ;)


Actually no Vettel never had a team radio call to let Webber past actually. There was a call for Webber in Silverstone telling him not to overtake Vettel when he was clearly faster. Points taken away from his final standing right there.

And please you talk as though the Ferrari was a slug to up Alonso's worth. Just look at Brazil for a prime example... On the options Ferrari had better pace than McLaren, but come prime time the rolls reversed.
This was the same for a few other races this year. So please stop acting like Alonso was some god driving the back of a red slug. Sounding like a fanboy. :hehe:

Oh btw Heikki drove better than Fernando because he was really driving a slug. :D


Well with the 3rd best car it was impressive to even be ahead and Vettel was 15(?) points behind so to lose out like that is shocking.
in 2010? By second half of the season Ferrari were ahead of the McLaren and on par with Redbull at some tracks.

What is it with putting down Ferrari to up Alonso today :banghead:
#287014
And please you talk as though the Ferrari was a slug to up Alonso's worth. Just look at Brazil for a prime example... On the options Ferrari had better pace than McLaren, but come prime time the rolls reversed.
This was the same for a few other races this year.


......when it was advantaged. Macca was never really in Red Bull league either.


so what was that... like for about 10 laps of a few races, the Ferrari was able to be on more or less the pace of Mclaren...... maybe a bit faster, maybe a bit slower. But GENERALLY, for most of the race, Q and circuits.. Ferrari was slower.

Mclaren, on the other hand..... were ussualy on simmilar pace to Red Bull. While Vettel/RB was the best Q, Mclaren were almost always putting the fight; except maybe a very few races, but in general Mclaren was "close" in Q. Almost always splitting them for Q.

In the races, Mclaren were sometimes off on the first stint or so... but from half race on, they were normally on similar pace, if not better than Red Bull. Ferrari were never faster than Red Bull, like ever; and even when Alonso was in front of one of them (like in Monza), he was not really faster... he was just ahead.

Give or take an odd track or something:
Red Bull was strong on Q, low fuel, heavy fuel, hard tires and soft tires. They were just fast on everything. Mclaren were sometimes slow on heavy fuel, ussualy not very far on Q and sometimes faster on light fuel. Ferrari....... pretty much never faster than RB, hardly ever on similar pace, and sometimes on similar pace to Mclaren.

The Ferrari car was poor. but at least it looked good :)
#287027
10 laps? You're really pushing for this downgraded version of Ferraris pace aren't you... Their problem was on the Primes. I pretty sure most races they did 2 stints on the options and one on the primes. So that's more than ten laps. Suzuka for example Ferrari were far from slow even in the last stint. So this claim of overall or generally doesn't fit. Each race was different and Ferrari were not as slow as you'd like them to be just so you can talk up your god like status for Alonso.

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