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[australia99]

Jordan

if only, if only.

[andrew]

Jordan

if only, if only.

Don't be daft! Eddie Jordan couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery with a bunch of homeless chronic alcoholics.

Remember this clown had some young German kid in one of his cars but was too stupid to have a proper contract so the kid very smartly moved to a real team. Jordan went to court but seeing as Schumacher hadn't signed a contract the case was a waste of time. F1 is a professional sport these days with no room for clowns these days.

[QuoththeRaven]

Please excuse my cynicism on the matter, but why does everybody think that Ferrari is not in Formula 1 to promote their own brand?

I mean, it is their one and only marketing tool. I would go so far as to say that Ferrari cannot leave Formula 1 without taking a massive hit to their image unlike Red Bull which is, when you get down to it, just a drinks company and not a race car company that sells it's cars using the long history of competing in Formula 1 as a works team.

When it no longer makes any marketing or financial sense to do so, Red Bull, like most other companies out to make money, will leave Formula 1. I do not find this unusual. Remember that the team has some very long running deals with suppliers, like engines from Renault until 2016, so it is not like they are going to just up and leave if they get second or third place.

I think that what the article really was very honest. Instead of the usual platitudes about "an ongoing commitment" and "a love of the sport" we got an honest evaluation of what and why Red Bull, the drinks company, is in F1. Just like Ferrari, they are in it to sell their product. Unlike Ferrari, they have lots of other options to do so should this one have run it's course and no longer be viable.

[andrew]

Please excuse my cynicism on the matter, but why does everybody think that Ferrari is not in Formula 1 to promote their own brand?

I mean, it is their one and only marketing tool. I would go so far as to say that Ferrari cannot leave Formula 1 without taking a massive hit to their image unlike Red Bull which is, when you get down to it, just a drinks company and not a race car company that sells it's cars using the long history of competing in Formula 1 as a works team.

When it no longer makes any marketing or financial sense to do so, Red Bull, like most other companies out to make money, will leave Formula 1. I do not find this unusual. Remember that the team has some very long running deals with suppliers, like engines from Renault until 2016, so it is not like they are going to just up and leave if they get second or third place.

I think that what the article really was very honest. Instead of the usual platitudes about "an ongoing commitment" and "a love of the sport" we got an honest evaluation of what and why Red Bull, the drinks company, is in F1. Just like Ferrari, they are in it to sell their product. Unlike Ferrari, they have lots of other options to do so should this one have run it's course and no longer be viable.

Quoted for truth.

[bud]

Please excuse my cynicism on the matter, but why does everybody think that Ferrari is not in Formula 1 to promote their own brand?

I mean, it is their one and only marketing tool. I would go so far as to say that Ferrari cannot leave Formula 1 without taking a massive hit to their image unlike Red Bull which is, when you get down to it, just a drinks company and not a race car company that sells it's cars using the long history of competing in Formula 1 as a works team.

When it no longer makes any marketing or financial sense to do so, Red Bull, like most other companies out to make money, will leave Formula 1. I do not find this unusual. Remember that the team has some very long running deals with suppliers, like engines from Renault until 2016, so it is not like they are going to just up and leave if they get second or third place.

I think that what the article really was very honest. Instead of the usual platitudes about "an ongoing commitment" and "a love of the sport" we got an honest evaluation of what and why Red Bull, the drinks company, is in F1. Just like Ferrari, they are in it to sell their product. Unlike Ferrari, they have lots of other options to do so should this one have run it's course and no longer be viable.

Learn your history, Ferrari are an F1 team first and foremost. Enzo got into the auto business to fund his F1 team.

Ferraris setup has really nothing in common with Redbull who sell a product and bought into F1 to promote said product.

[myownalias]

I don't believe that the original Ferrari model still applies; these days, what Ferrari get from sponsorship and FOM monies covers their operating costs for the most part, for Ferrari like most manufacturers in F1, the sport is now as much an marketing strategy for Ferrari as it is a passion for F1.

[scotty]

Difference for the manufacturers is that they use F1 as R&D as well, not just to sell stuff. You cannot ignore that aspect.

I personally find it amazing that Red Bull generate enough ultimate revenue from participating in F1 to make all the expenditure worthwhile...

[Jabberwocky]

I wonder how much of Helmuts comments are to do with FOTA and the RRA. They are holding out the "If you nobble us we will walk"/Ferrari Card

[What's Burning?]

Just goes to show... teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Williams are the true racing outfits... they'll stick it through to the end no matter what.

They exist for F1 that's their sole purpose.

Isn't there another thread about Ferrari getting paid too much for their participation in the sport? I wish Williams had some of that as well. IMO a team whose sole purpose is the sport of F1 should get paid more as part of that commitment.

I personally find it amazing that Red Bull generate enough ultimate revenue from participating in F1 to make all the expenditure worthwhile...

I find it amazing they generate the revenue they do selling the pisswater they can.

[QuoththeRaven]

Learn your history, Ferrari are an F1 team first and foremost. Enzo got into the auto business to fund his F1 team.

Ferraris setup has really nothing in common with Redbull who sell a product and bought into F1 to promote said product.

That is true. However now Ferrari is now mostly owned by Fiat, if memory serves and old man Enzo is dead and gone.

It is now a business that needs to turn a profit.

[darwin dali]

Not sure how much money Mateschitz has to inject every year considering the price money plus outside sponsors (there still are some even though the bulk of the advertising real estate is set aside for Red Bull). Pretty sure whatever is needed on top will be paid out of the Red Bull advertising money pot.

[australia99]

Jordan

if only, if only.

Don't be daft! Eddie Jordan couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery with a bunch of homeless chronic alcoholics.

Remember this clown had some young German kid in one of his cars but was too stupid to have a proper contract so the kid very smartly moved to a real team. Jordan went to court but seeing as Schumacher hadn't signed a contract the case was a waste of time. F1 is a professional sport these days with no room for clowns these days.

dont forget, eddie learn't from this mistake. He made Ferrari pay through their teeth for Irvine, then from memory used the money to finance a new wind tunnel.

[bud]

Learn your history, Ferrari are an F1 team first and foremost. Enzo got into the auto business to fund his F1 team.

Ferraris setup has really nothing in common with Redbull who sell a product and bought into F1 to promote said product.

That is true. However now Ferrari is now mostly owned by Fiat, if memory serves and old man Enzo is dead and gone.

It is now a business that needs to turn a profit.

Ferrari have been in F1 since the first season, they were founded as an F1 team first and foremost. Yes they are now majority owned by Fiat but the Auto division of Ferrari has built up its own reputation over the years I'm not sure it's sales would change if Ferrari were in F1 or not and Being an exotic car make its a niche market at best. Also their biggest market is in the USA and that country isn't exactly F1 mad.
So my point is while Ferraris auto division is important their F1 team is not in F1 to sell road cars, as I pointed out it was quite the opposite and now have built up a nice package of exotic cars and racing team.
Someone like Mercedes, Renault BMW who sell high volume family oriented cars that's a different story.
Then there's Redbull, like Scotty said at least auto makes in F1 can R&D technology for road use but Redbull is entirely a marketing exercise.