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[andrew]

Not exactly a boring race but where was all the overtaking?...

It's a Tilke circuit. There is no overtaking on Tilke circuits, only long strings of parade laps.

Total and utter bovine manure!!!

If there is supposedly no overtaking on Tilke track, explain why I have seen other series use Tilke track and manage to have overtaking? The tracks are generally fine, there's always going to be the odd dud of a track but if the cars are ever sorted then overtaking will return. Unfortunately this won't happen as sorting the cars to help overtaking would most likely be seen as a step backwards.

[EagleF1-27]

Not exactly a boring race but where was all the overtaking?...

It's a Tilke circuit. There is no overtaking on Tilke circuits, only long strings of parade laps.

Total and utter bovine manure!!!

If there is supposedly no overtaking on Tilke track, explain why I have seen other series use Tilke track and manage to have overtaking? The tracks are generally fine, there's always going to be the odd dud of a track but if the cars are ever sorted then overtaking will return. Unfortunately this won't happen as sorting the cars to help overtaking would most likely be seen as a step backwards.

And it would require a rewrite of the rules such that less emphasis of a cars grip to the track is due to aero downforce rather than mechanical grip. This is never seemingly going to happen given how much money F1 teams probably spend in this area. I am surprised Adrian Newey isnt the highest paid individual in any F1 team considering how crucial he has been to Red Bull's success.

[darwin dali]

Not exactly a boring race but where was all the overtaking?...

It's a Tilke circuit. There is no overtaking on Tilke circuits, only long strings of parade laps.

Total and utter bovine manure!!!

If there is supposedly no overtaking on Tilke track, explain why I have seen other series use Tilke track and manage to have overtaking? The tracks are generally fine, there's always going to be the odd dud of a track but if the cars are ever sorted then overtaking will return. Unfortunately this won't happen as sorting the cars to help overtaking would most likely be seen as a step backwards.

And it would require a rewrite of the rules such that less emphasis of a cars grip to the track is due to aero downforce rather than mechanical grip. This is never seemingly going to happen given how much money F1 teams probably spend in this area. I am surprised Adrian Newey isnt the highest paid individual in any F1 team considering how crucial he has been to Red Bull's success.

I'm pretty sure he is, possibly beaten only by a few of the highest paid drivers.

[scotty]

I heard he's on £8m a year plus the Red Bull bonuses for WCC points. But that could easily be a load of BS...

[What's Burning?]

Didn't get to watch the race until late last night... it all felt a bit hollow, pointless almost, near the bottom of the list this year in the excitement department. When the most interesting thing is that you're paying attention for the race for 8th through 10th, there's a problem.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Not exactly a boring race but where was all the overtaking?...

It's a Tilke circuit. There is no overtaking on Tilke circuits, only long strings of parade laps.

Total and utter bovine manure!!!

If there is supposedly no overtaking on Tilke track, explain why I have seen other series use Tilke track and manage to have overtaking? ...

Quite a convincing and fact-laden argument.

Because these other venues do not run F1 cars. No other racing car on earth has the F1 car's combination of speed and dependence on aerodynamic downforce for cornering grip. That gives them unique capabilities and requirements.



“You've got to ask yourself, why do you go to a race such as Barcelona where no-one overtakes, and then take exactly the same cars to Monza, Montreal or Hockenheim and you get lots of overtaking? Those cars are exactly the same aerodynamically, yet on one circuit they overtake a lot and on another circuit they don't overtake at all.

“It's because of the circuit layout; it's because when they lay out circuits, they don't look closely enough at the combination of slow-speed corners onto straights followed by slow-speed corners."

"Of course the car design has some responsibility for it, and if you went to every circuit and you never saw any overtaking, then you could blame it all on the car design – but clearly that's not the case, because there are places where cars do overtake."
-- Sam Michael



“Fundamentally, I think the circuits are probably the biggest influence. Everybody keeps conveniently forgetting about that, as it is deemed to be easier to change the cars than change the circuits.”
-- Adrian Newey. speaking at the FIA overtaking seminar



And I'd reckon that Newey chap has forgot more about F1 that you and I know combined so I'd suggest you find a more productive use for your organic fertilizer. There is no overtaking at the Tilke-dromes.


EDIT:
"My belief is that the major reason for the lack of overtaking in modern grand prix racing is down to the modern tracks, nearly all of which have been designed by the same man, the German architect Hermann Tilke. I fear he has not done much for the spectators..."
-- Sir Jackie Stewart

[LewEngBridewell]

Tilke tracks have no overtaking? Bollocks. Some of them have more overtaking than many circuits.

Shanghai, Sepang and Istanbul Park gave us a tremendous amount of passes this season. The Chinese GP ranks, in my opinion, as one of this season's most exciting races!!!

[GRHinPorts]

Sheesh! People were complaining after the Chinese and Turkish Grand Prix this season because overtaking had been made too easy!

[LewEngBridewell]

Sheesh! People were complaining after the Chinese and Turkish Grand Prix this season because overtaking had been made too easy!

OMG tell me about it!!

During the decade prior to this, people have moaned about the lack of overtaking.

This season we get it, and people moan that there's too much or it's too easy.

In one of the few races that lacks the myriad of overtaking we've got used to this season, people moan that there's no overtaking on Tilke tracks...

[GRHinPorts]

IMO the reason we didnt see much overtaking in this Grand Prix is because all the cars found there positions relative to their various speeds fairly early on the race. You are not ever going to see a slower car overtake a faster one in front of it.

[LewEngBridewell]

IMO the reason we didnt see much overtaking in this Grand Prix is because all the cars found there positions relative to their various speeds fairly early on the race. You are not ever going to see a slower car overtake a faster one in front of it.

And people's assessments of how much overtaking there was are often marred by a lack of action at the front. There was still passing aplenty in the midfield wasn't there? Or am I putting rose-tinted specs on already?

[GRHinPorts]

IMO the reason we didnt see much overtaking in this Grand Prix is because all the cars found there positions relative to their various speeds fairly early on the race. You are not ever going to see a slower car overtake a faster one in front of it.

And people's assessments of how much overtaking there was are often marred by a lack of action at the front. There was still passing aplenty in the midfield wasn't there? Or am I putting rose-tinted specs on already?

Well the Torro Rosso's qualified 9th and 10th but both fell back at the start to be out of the points. Lo and behold the overtook and pretty easily the cars between them and 9th and 1th spot. Basically the placing their relative speed allowed to achieve.

So no, I dont think you have any floral pink optical devices on.

[LewEngBridewell]

IMO the reason we didnt see much overtaking in this Grand Prix is because all the cars found there positions relative to their various speeds fairly early on the race. You are not ever going to see a slower car overtake a faster one in front of it.

And people's assessments of how much overtaking there was are often marred by a lack of action at the front. There was still passing aplenty in the midfield wasn't there? Or am I putting rose-tinted specs on already?

Well the Torro Rosso's qualified 9th and 10th but both fell back at the start to be out of the points. Lo and behold the overtook and pretty easily the cars between them and 9th and 1th spot. Basically the placing their relative speed allowed to achieve.

So no, I dont think you have any floral pink optical devices on.

Didn't think so

[bigpat]

I know Tilke bashing is almost axsport itself nowadays, but I commend him on the Buddh circuit. The high speed section really showcases what the cars can do, great to see. Unfortunately, where you have a sequence of high speed corners, you can't follow close enough do to aero..... On any circuit.

The reason you see passing at Monza, Montreal, Sepang etc is simple. The cars enter a long straight from a slow to medium speed corner( not hugely aero reliant) and brake to a SLOW corner or chicane. It's a long known recipe for overtaking....

I felt there was a decent amount of passing. As GRHinPorts wrote, all the cars pretty much ran in order of their relative speed, hence not too much passing. It's when cars are out of position relative to their pace, than you see passing.
Remember also that there was little tyre degradation, which always contributes to passing.

I don't know why people keep moaning about aerodynamics. Geez, it's because of this that the cars are so breathtakingly quick, and what captivated us. Do you really want to see glorified Formula Fords slithering around corners? Car control wouldn't be an issue at those much slower cornering speeds.

[darwin dali]

You are not ever going to see a slower car overtake a faster one in front of it.

That's deep
(but I agree, of course )