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[Denthúl]

Massa was at fault for the incident, and when looking at the incident as a whole with it clear that he knew where Lewis was, he deserved the penalty. Overall however, I'm still uncomfortable with the horrible reality that about 95% of incidents are being penalised across the board if you look at all races from recent years. There's hardly any such thing as a 'racing incident' any more, which I don't think is good for F1 or racing in general.

Perhaps dropping penalties for causing avoidable incidents would be a better step forward, instead just focusing on the kind of dangerous driving that puts people at risk (Schumacher/Barrichello at Hungary last year, for example).

[fanboy]

Not the best race but not the worst. Great potential for future years I reckon.

My opinions in short.

Schumacher's race is sadly not being highlighted enough, understandably with the Lewis / Massa incident of course, but I wanted to mention it before anything else. Yet again, Schumi makes up several places off the start line and is substantially ahead of his start position by the end of the race. Got his strategy spot on, slight wobble out of the pits after his last stop, but almost a perfect race from his perspective. Not that I was wishing ill on any other driver, but I have to admit, in the last couple of laps I was thinking 'I wonder if Webber and Alonso might have a minor collision', and that could have promoted Schumacher to a podium that I think he deserves on the balance of his performance this season.

Massa was at fault for the incident, and when looking at the incident as a whole with it clear that he knew where Lewis was, he deserved the penalty. Overall however, I'm still uncomfortable with the horrible reality that about 95% of incidents are being penalised across the board if you look at all races from recent years. There's hardly any such thing as a 'racing incident' any more, which I don't think is good for F1 or racing in general.

Vettel is just an awesome racer. So so quick it's ridiculous. Oh how I would love it if he had a stronger team mate to watch some inter-team battles. A shame that Webber being so poor this year has denied us any effective title battle. A couple of off races I could forgive, but he has been consistently poor for the entire season almost without exception, so I don't think much of a defence can be put up on that one.

Agree with this guy.

[LewEngBridewell]

Not the best race but not the worst. Great potential for future years I reckon.

My opinions in short.

Schumacher's race is sadly not being highlighted enough, understandably with the Lewis / Massa incident of course, but I wanted to mention it before anything else. Yet again, Schumi makes up several places off the start line and is substantially ahead of his start position by the end of the race. Got his strategy spot on, slight wobble out of the pits after his last stop, but almost a perfect race from his perspective. Not that I was wishing ill on any other driver, but I have to admit, in the last couple of laps I was thinking 'I wonder if Webber and Alonso might have a minor collision', and that could have promoted Schumacher to a podium that I think he deserves on the balance of his performance this season.

Massa was at fault for the incident, and when looking at the incident as a whole with it clear that he knew where Lewis was, he deserved the penalty. Overall however, I'm still uncomfortable with the horrible reality that about 95% of incidents are being penalised across the board if you look at all races from recent years. There's hardly any such thing as a 'racing incident' any more, which I don't think is good for F1 or racing in general.

Vettel is just an awesome racer. So so quick it's ridiculous. Oh how I would love it if he had a stronger team mate to watch some inter-team battles. A shame that Webber being so poor this year has denied us any effective title battle. A couple of off races I could forgive, but he has been consistently poor for the entire season almost without exception, so I don't think much of a defence can be put up on that one.

Agree with this guy.

Me too. Wholeheartedly.

[racechick]

Not the best race but not the worst. Great potential for future years I reckon.

Massa was at fault for the incident, and when looking at the incident as a whole with it clear that he knew where Lewis was, he deserved the penalty. Overall however, I'm still uncomfortable with the horrible reality that about 95% of incidents are being penalised across the board if you look at all races from recent years. There's hardly any such thing as a 'racing incident' any more, which I don't think is good for F1 or racing in general.

Completely agree with this!

Also on Shueys strong race. And one cannot deny Vettel's right at the top of his game at the moment. On a personal note. Im just going to go and curl up somewhere

[stonemonkey]

That was pretty poor judgement by hamilton, massa's been unable to give himself enough room on the corners with no other cars around all weekend so how hamilton thought massa could cope with someone alongside him god only knows.

[LewEngBridewell]

That was pretty poor judgement by hamilton, massa's been unable to give himself enough room on the corners with no other cars around all weekend so how hamilton thought massa could cope with someone alongside him god only knows.

The funny thing is... Massa twice damaged his car more severely taking a corner on his own than in the incident with Lewis.

[Hammer278]

That was pretty poor judgement by hamilton, massa's been unable to give himself enough room on the corners with no other cars around all weekend so how hamilton thought massa could cope with someone alongside him god only knows.

Yes I agree, Hamilton needs to think about other people's problems and personal gremlins when making an overtake on track.

[bud]

The fastest lap is insufficient basis for this claim. His previous laps were a 1:30.X and a 1:50.X; he'd have had to have backed off through the entire sector to have not set a personal best time.

If there were people on the track when he went past, fair enough, but that's not the issue. The issue is, did he lift off at the point of being shown the yellow flag? He wasn't given a penalty, so the stewards mustn't have judged that he ignored the caution. Compare this to Lewis' situation: he was flat-out, DRS open and even admitted he didn't acknowledge the flags. Whether or not anyone was on the track at the time is irrelevant, he was shown double waved yellows and ignored them. Now, if the data showed that Jenson just carried on at full-pace and didn't do anything to acknowledge the situation, then yes it would create an unfair scenario. However, since all we have is one quick replay and the stewards have multiple camera angles and plenty of data, we can't make that claim.

That's not entirely fir. It's a proven fact there were green list on track along side the localized yellows. Far from easy to blame the driver for track officials incompetence.

[Denthúl]

The fastest lap is insufficient basis for this claim. His previous laps were a 1:30.X and a 1:50.X; he'd have had to have backed off through the entire sector to have not set a personal best time.

If there were people on the track when he went past, fair enough, but that's not the issue. The issue is, did he lift off at the point of being shown the yellow flag? He wasn't given a penalty, so the stewards mustn't have judged that he ignored the caution. Compare this to Lewis' situation: he was flat-out, DRS open and even admitted he didn't acknowledge the flags. Whether or not anyone was on the track at the time is irrelevant, he was shown double waved yellows and ignored them. Now, if the data showed that Jenson just carried on at full-pace and didn't do anything to acknowledge the situation, then yes it would create an unfair scenario. However, since all we have is one quick replay and the stewards have multiple camera angles and plenty of data, we can't make that claim.

That's not entirely fir. It's a proven fact there were green list on track along side the localized yellows. Far from easy to blame the driver for track officials incompetence.

Correct (and I don't believe that it should be ignored that the marshall was wrong to wave those flags at that point, but it's a separate matter and should be dealt with accordingly), however if he saw the flags, regardless of any other indication he should have slowed. Just as was the case that the marshall here was incorrectly waving the yellow flags, so too could it have been that the electronic systems being set to show all-clear could have been a mistake. When it comes to situations like this, the yellows must take precedence. It's better to be safe than sorry.

[bud]

They bring in the lights system because it's meant to be more accurate, safer and easier for drivers to see track status but in effect if there were only the old fashioned flags system we wouldn't have had this problem.

Basically what precedent is set is the light system is second to the flags, regardless if the marshal waving the flag is competent, regardless if a yellow is in fact a yellow.

Seems you have one or the other, if they can't work in sync they will only confuse the driver. Which is not needed.

[Denthúl]

I agree, but I don't think we could lose either. The lights are far superior in the kind of conditions that we saw in Korea last season, whereas a man with a flag can react to dangerous situations happening in the vicinity much faster than the guy operating the electronics. It won't ever be perfect, but this is the first noted incident of its type that I'm aware of (in F1, at least), so perhaps all that's required is more thorough training for the marshalls.

[FerrariFan63]

Good race by Vettel. Good race by Button. Hard to tell exactly how good Alonso's race was as we had been told that the Ferrari was fast and a win was on the cards. Clearly Alonso's race was better than Webber's race, but was this because Alonso had a great race, or that Webber had a poor race. I tend towards the latter to be honest. Massa had a poor race, and because of that was caught up by the Hamilton, also having a poor race, which gave the opportunity for the incident which followed.

Button is cementing his position as the better of the two McLaren drivers. There's no question at all as to who is better at Red Bull and Ferrari. Question is, will these pecking positions continue for next year, or will any of the No. 2. drivers bounce back?

[bud]

To answer your question FF, Webber needs Bridgestones, Massa needs Jesus and Hamilton needs an iPhone app that tells him where Massa is on track and to stay well away from the wee man. Out of them Hamilton is the only one who will bounce back stronger next year.

[racechick]

I agree, but I don't think we could lose either. The lights are far superior in the kind of conditions that we saw in Korea last season, whereas a man with a flag can react to dangerous situations happening in the vicinity much faster than the guy operating the electronics. It won't ever be perfect, but this is the first noted incident of its type that I'm aware of (in F1, at least), so perhaps all that's required is more thorough training for the marshalls.

And in the meantime to not punish drivers for marshalls inexperience and/or incompetence.

[smokin]

Not exactly a boring race but where was all the overtaking? Button overtook Webber and... and... and there may have been some overtaking at the back of the field. The only other overtaking attempt of note was Hamilton's dive down the inside of Massa which ended in a penalty.

As for the validity of the penalty, it seems that the stewards have decided that any contact deserves punishment, racing incident or not, and then flip a coin to decide who gets it. I'm not saying that Massa didn't deserve this one but taken with all the other penalties this season the stewards' judgments do seem a bit random.