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[acosmichippo]

Is it really so difficult to write rules that expressly forbid moveable aero parts?

[bud]

Whether the system is steering or G force operated, it alters the aero, so is a moveable aero device and thus illegal in F1

another scarbs quote, and you'd have to agree, if the video he tweeted is how Mercs duct works then i can't see it lasting long.



Just thought id post this,Love the logo

[scotty]

The holes you see at the front of nosecones are related to vortices and helping air travel more effectively around it, that is my understanding.

As for this revelation, remember at the end of 2010 when this year's Ferrari was 'leaked', and it turned out to be completely different in the end?

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Saying they "invented" the F-Duct for the front wing is a bit like saying they invented catsup in the squeeze bottle.

[darwin dali]

Mercedes’ new idea is to redirect more undisturbed air through the floor of the car.

My limited understanding of aerodynamics tells me this would create higher pressure under the car, and thus less downforce. right?

if anything, they should be trying to take air OUT from under the car. put holes at the bottom of the front wing, and through a duct over the top of the car.

but then I'm not a highly-paid F1 aerodynamicist.

It's more to do with drag reduction at high speed (straights) to increase top speed.

[bigpat]

I see this has been reported in Autosport too....

The concept IN MY OPINION, it is compromised in 2 aspects:
1. The very small opening through the nosecone means the mass flow through the system would be very small.I also think the complicated route that the air has to follow, means that the air exiting the slots would have little energy to promote the necessary flow separation under the front wing.

2. If it does work, it would only be a very high speeds, at the end of straights, not in the acceleration zone where it would be of most benefit. I would think that it was powerful enough, it would also cause balance problems in high speed corners.


Elsewhere someone mentioned that sending air under the car upsets the downforce produced by the floor etc. Funnily enough, this is exactly what you do want to happen on the straights, as killing downforce, kills the drag too.......

By the way, the ducts that Ferrari had in their nosecones a while back were an exit duct, not inlet duct.

If we see all the 2012 cars will big intakes in the nosecone, we'll know that it REALLY works I suppose....

[acosmichippo]

so weird that after this season a team would design something to sacrifice high-speed downforce for straightline speed at the very end of straights. Firstly, we now have DRS, so really how much is something like this going to benefit you if DRS isn't doing the job? Secondly, by decreasing downforce, aren't they inherently decreasing stability in high-speed corners? If so, there are WAY more high-speed corners in F1 than very long straights, except for Canada. Isn't that why Red Bull has dominated this year as opposed to any team with higher top-speed?

[darwin dali]

so weird that after this season a team would design something to sacrifice high-speed downforce for straightline speed at the very end of straights. Firstly, we now have DRS, so really how much is something like this going to benefit you if DRS isn't doing the job? Secondly, by decreasing downforce, aren't they inherently decreasing stability in high-speed corners? If so, there are WAY more high-speed corners in F1 than very long straights, except for Canada. Isn't that why Red Bull has dominated this year as opposed to any team with higher top-speed?

DRS only works if you're within a second of the car in front of you during the detection zone - if you miss that window of opportunity, you might want to have additional help like this.

[bigpat]

I am suspicious as to how this became public knowledge.....

Something like this is relatively easy to conceal, as outwardly, nothing gives it away. I'm sure Mercedes aren't happy that the secret is out, but I think this may have been leaked, perhaps so the FIA can alter the rules, like they did in response the see-saw splitter splitter things on Scarbs' site?

I'm still not 100% convinced of its affect. Remember, if it does work, it REALLY changes the cars balance. I remember one race last year where Button was struggling in practise. He mentioned that the team had to alter the aero balance 1%, "which is just wrong..." as he said. So if 1% is a huge change, and this passive F-Duct works, there would likely be a BIG difference between high & low speed aero balance...

.....unless Mercedes already have a passive F-duct system for the rear wing too. Hmmmmm.......

[bud]

Merc had a passive rear wing f duct last year. So they have played with them before. As for it being leaked well telescopic lens' can pick up a lot of detail on a new wing.

[bigpat]

Merc had a passive rear wing f duct last year. So they have played with them before. As for it being leaked well telescopic lens' can pick up a lot of detail on a new wing.

Ok, the front F duct system makes sense then, as the balance would hopefully remain the same. Passive rear F-duct might explain why Lewis, even with DRS, and slipstream, couldn't pass Schuey at Monza........

I feel any camera couldn't reveal anything about the system, unless a picture of the underside of the wing was taken, revealing the venting slots. Everything else in concealed. Anyhow.....

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I don't think anything moves in the Mercy FFduct --apart from air. I think it's progressive and stepless based on the relative airflow at the nose; nothing to turn on, nothing to turn off. It works in linear fashion to moderate the rise in downforce as speed increases. This lets them run a more aggressive angle of attack (for the benefit of low speed cornering) without it producing so much downforce at full gallop that the wing either scrapes the tarmac or produces excessive oversteer.