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[bud]

as i said before demure READ BETWEEN THE LINES

the FIA would have forced McLarens hand in this letter and its contents so they could race in 2008 unhindered somewhat.
Ofcourse McLaren were guilty of breaching 151c just as Renault were but i still stand by the witch hunt as its put that has gone forward against them led by Max Mosely on the "Ferrari agenda" which you agree the FIA plays in.

saying McLaren should be kicked out of F1 shows a lack of intelligence taken to a new level.

enough said.

[al4x]

this forum is 'fiesty'

well at least it seems it may be over

ferrari, mclaren, everyone cheats,

mclaren got caught cheating alot,

and ferrari and the fia are too close

(and renault will win next year!, good luck to kovi)

hopefully next year i will be able to enjoy some raving, whats that?

[Mikep99]

I have a reality problem? well coming from your brainwashed reality ofcourse you would say that huh

bud your reality is based on racist & religious intolerance , which you have proven on many an occasion.

did you choose to be christian? no? then yes you are brainwashed.

No I didn't but I choose to stay one & because of it I make more choices in one day trying to live up to my belief's than you would in a week.
But with Religion you get it or you don't so let's just leave it be mate.

I chose not to have a religion. again the word CHOICE im not hinting at being individual im hinting at my own self decisions in regard to my life

I choose to stay a catholic but I won't ram it down anyone's throat like your doing because I am one.

i take it youre talking about an Australian F1 team? why do you have to choose a F1 team based on its country of origin that ties with yourself to follow anyway? F1 isnt the Olympics if you want that kind of event go watch A1GP

It's not a written law that you must choose to follow your country of origin but F1 is still a sport just like Soccer, Rugby league, Rugby etc etc etc that fly's that countries flag & I can guarantee you that 99.9% of the time people will follow the team they have ties too. You make it out to be something to be ashamed of.

how dare you as a catholic condone birth control
but all in all if you cant fathom "pro choice" maybe you are brainwashe

I am a practicing catholic but I choose what I think is right or wrong mate.
Maybe I will go to hell for it but it's my CHOICE

Last post from me on this crap bud, its way of topic & self indulgent on our parts.

Let's just forget about McLarens self inflicted problems in 2007 & move onto 2008.

[deMuRe]

as i said before demure READ BETWEEN THE LINES

the FIA would have forced McLarens hand in this letter and its contents so they could race in 2008 unhindered somewhat.
Ofcourse McLaren were guilty of breaching 151c just as Renault were but i still stand by the witch hunt as its put that has gone forward against them led by Max Mosely on the "Ferrari agenda" which you agree the FIA plays in.

saying McLaren should be kicked out of F1 shows a lack of intelligence taken to a new level.

enough said.

Oh OK, now we have to read between the lines to understand what's really going on in F1...

Yes the teams have all cheated in F1, but never to this proportion, McLaren has taken things to a new level and unless they are made an example of this will never stop...

[racechick]

You know this do you? You have detailed knowledge of all the"cheating"? I doubt this is anywhere near previous levels never mind "new levels"

[McLaren Fan]

as i said before demure READ BETWEEN THE LINES

the FIA would have forced McLarens hand in this letter and its contents so they could race in 2008 unhindered somewhat.
Ofcourse McLaren were guilty of breaching 151c just as Renault were but i still stand by the witch hunt as its put that has gone forward against them led by Max Mosely on the "Ferrari agenda" which you agree the FIA plays in.

saying McLaren should be kicked out of F1 shows a lack of intelligence taken to a new level.

enough said.

Oh OK, now we have to read between the lines to understand what's really going on in F1...

Yes the teams have all cheated in F1, but never to this proportion, McLaren has taken things to a new level and unless they are made an example of this will never stop...

Let's assume it was all one-way traffic and that McLaren were the only ones to do any wrong. Why did Renault get off with cheating? Why was an example not made of them?

[deMuRe]

as i said before demure READ BETWEEN THE LINES

the FIA would have forced McLarens hand in this letter and its contents so they could race in 2008 unhindered somewhat.
Ofcourse McLaren were guilty of breaching 151c just as Renault were but i still stand by the witch hunt as its put that has gone forward against them led by Max Mosely on the "Ferrari agenda" which you agree the FIA plays in.

saying McLaren should be kicked out of F1 shows a lack of intelligence taken to a new level.

enough said.

Oh OK, now we have to read between the lines to understand what's really going on in F1...

Yes the teams have all cheated in F1, but never to this proportion, McLaren has taken things to a new level and unless they are made an example of this will never stop...

Let's assume it was all one-way traffic and that McLaren were the only ones to do any wrong. Why did Renault get off with cheating? Why was an example not made of them?

I don't know much about the Renault case...

I'm sick of arguing this point to be honest...

You've worn me down, you win, McLaren did nothing wrong, everyone else is lying and cheating...

Happy now?

[darwin dali]

Renault is where McLaren was after the first WSMC decision, i.e., if more detailed information about any illegal use of data becomes available they'll get punished. One major difference though is that Renault was open and upfront with what had happened from the beginning whereas RD decided to admit bits and pieces of the truth one after the other as more and more details became available. Thus his belated Mea Culpa letter, the only thing left he could do as his position of stubbornness became untenable and his credibility had suffered.

[McLaren Fan]

Basically, by not punishing Renault (and Toyota) the FIA have shown two possible permutations: a) cheating is fine if you come out and say you did it from the outset (not that Renault did this anyway, despite reports) b) cheating is fine as long as the FIA have nothing against your team or some of its personnel, or you are not a threat to Ferrari.

[McLaren Fan]

You've worn me down, you win, McLaren did nothing wrong, everyone else is lying and cheating...

Nobody is saying McLaren did no wrong. All we want is you to see the other issues pertaining to the case.

[deMuRe]

Basically, by not punishing Renault (and Toyota) the FIA have shown two possible permutations: a) cheating is fine if you come out and say you did it from the outset (not that Renault did this anyway, despite reports) b) cheating is fine as long as the FIA have nothing against your team or some of its personnel, or you are not a threat to Ferrari.

a) Flavio was honest and upfront about it and dealt with the situation, that much I do know.

b) I think they are saying as long as it didn't make your car go faster. It didn't help Toyota and it certainly didn't help Renault last season.

I think the point your missing is Ferrari has been at the sharp end of the grid for a while now, if Ferrari were backmarkers I don't think the FIA would give a toss.

[Mikep99]

Basically, by not punishing Renault (and Toyota) the FIA have shown two possible permutations: a) cheating is fine if you come out and say you did it from the outset (not that Renault did this anyway, despite reports) b) cheating is fine as long as the FIA have nothing against your team or some of its personnel, or you are not a threat to Ferrari.

McLaren Fan your still not getting DD's main point.
The McLaren - Renualt case is still at stage 1 which is exactly the same outcome with Ferrari - McLaren stage 1.
Stage two was when Ferrari presented new evidence & demanded stage 2 (Full investigation).
Now its up to McLaren to do the rest. Then if as much evidence is proven, the same punishemnet should apply no questions about it but with some browny points for owning up and telling the true from the start.

Also now we know why McLaren dident appeal the decision. At least they were smart about that but it still came out in the end.

[F1tastic]

...You've worn me down, you win, McLaren did nothing wrong, everyone else is lying and cheating...

Happy now?

Not really, no. As has been said earlier by me and other posters.... we just want you to acknowledge that Ferrari have done their fair share too.... (as have alot of other teams) and as such you can appreciate that there is a bias pervading F1. Other teams haven't been penalised to anywhere near the extent McLaren has. A level playing field is all that I'm arguing for.

McLaren cheated, Renault cheated, Toyota cheated and yes - shock horror, Ferrari have cheated too. Why can you not admit that?

Calling me an idiot devalues your argument and only serves to inflame. Please learn to temper your posts.

[racechick]

a) Flavio was honest and upfront about it and dealt with the situation, that much I do know.

.

Up friont and honest about cheating?? Contradiction in terms my friend. And we're talking Flavio here

[bud]

I have a reality problem? well coming from your brainwashed reality ofcourse you would say that huh

bud your reality is based on racist & religious intolerance , which you have proven on many an occasion.

dont you duck dare go that line with me "mate"!