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[FRAFPDD]

It werent even 50/50 in my opinion, Hamilton just plain didnt check think or see his mirrors to see Kobayashi, and as a result he takes full responsibility for what happened, Kobayashi did nothing wrong.

[myownalias]

It werent even 50/50 in my opinion, Hamilton just plain didnt check think or see his mirrors to see Kobayashi, and as a result he takes full responsibility for what happened, Kobayashi did nothing wrong.

That depends on your school of thought:

(a) the leading driver should have been more aware and allowed more room.

or

(b) the driver making the overtake has the responsibility to avoid contact as he is the one with the full view of what's happening.

Personally I can see both sides of the coin which is why I say 50/50; racing incident!

[Peng]

It werent even 50/50 in my opinion, Hamilton just plain didnt check think or see his mirrors to see Kobayashi, and as a result he takes full responsibility for what happened, Kobayashi did nothing wrong.

I wouldn't say he did nothing wrong as he was never going to overtake Hamilton around the outside of that corner and he probably knew that.

It was still Hamiltons mistake for not checking his mirror but quite frankly i doubt many drivers on the track would have checked in that position as there was absolutely no reason why a car would be trying to overtake on the outside of that corner.

People on this forum criticized Hamilton for trying overtakes that were never ever going to work and this was 1 by Kobayashi, so again i wouldn't say he did nothing wrong.

Either way this is the Hamilton - Maldonado thread and Hamilton already blamed himself 100% for the accident so we may aswell settle for that :p

[andrew]

Koby was not going to vapourise and it is foolish to expect him to give up and let someone past. The onus is on the overtaker to make sure they have secured the position they are trying to take. I would put the blame in a situation like this (regardless of the dirver) 100% on the overtaker and not on the overtakee, unless the overtakee turned into the overtaker which Koby did not do.

Put it this way, if you are driving on the dual carridge way, you pass a slower car, you make sure you are past that car before you pull in. If you pull in too early and have an crash it is your fault, unless the car you are overtaking speeds up, but even then you should be aware of that.

I don't agree with the racing incident view and the fact that Hamilton has since admitted that he was 100% at fault should set alarmn bells ringing with the race stewards about their original ruling.

I think Niki Lauda has hit the nail on the head again with his comments. OK saying someone could get killed is maybe a bit dramatic but he does make a good point.

[bud]

Give me a break, you can't say it's a racing incident in one sentence then bring up Laudas stupid comment in another and say it is valid.


If you look at the incident again you'll see Lewis got the pass done well before the corner on the straight, Koby was trying to regain position by going on the outside( good luck on old tyres against a faster car on brand new tyres) of a fast right hander. But in your own words the onus is on the overtaker and seeing as Koby was trying to regain position he was the overtaker...

[andrew]

Give me a break, you can't say it's a racing incident in one sentence then bring up Laudas stupid comment in another and say it is valid.

I'm not saying it is a racing incident. I've looked at the footage again and considering Hamilton has taken the blame then I don't see how it can be called it a racing incident. What Lauda said made a lot of sense. Hamilton has been involved in a certain amount of on-track carnage this year (for whatever reason) and it's detracting away from what should be some good performances (God I feel sick say that). Maybe it's just an off year or trying too hard, who knows. Given Button's pace yesterday, I think Hamilton could have won this race or come very close to winning.

If you look at the incident again you'll see Lewis got the pass done well before the corner on the straight, Koby was trying to regain position by going on the outside( good luck on old tyres against a faster car on brand new tyres) of a fast right hander.

At no point was he completely past Koby when he pulled to the left. So what if Koby was trying to regain his position? It's racing! To expect someone to jump out of the way just because someone else is on newer tyres and in a faster car is not racing.

But in your own words the onus is on the overtaker and seeing as Koby was trying to regain position he was the overtaker...

Hamilton's overtake was not complete as he was not past Koby, thus the contact.

This is extremely clear to me if you look at this clip. Hamilton drifting to the left, not looking or couldn't see in his mirror cuts of Koby and has an of track excursion.

[youtube]62cZBwxzCBg[/youtube]

But of course if you are an ardent McLaren or a Hamilton fan then you'll argue otherwise until the cows come home.

[FRAFPDD]

Yeah but the overtake wasnt complete thats the ENTIRE point, Hamilton got complacent, a fair mistake given he was ahead by the time theyd hit eau rouge, but he didnt expect Kobayashi to still be with him, he didnt even use any KERS after passing him when im sure as hell Koba was to keep up.

You can say he was infront, but that doesnt make an overtake complete, once your off seconds ahead its complete.

Kobayashi got his draft, a bit of extra speed too, and kept as close as possible in order to gain lap time, he was on the white line of the track the whole time, and Hamilton moved back across withough checking his mirrors.

Its really that simple. Hamilton rewatched the incident and says he didnt know he was there, unfortunately this is only being talked about or debated because its such a simple thing to do, to check how close the man youve overtaken actually is, that it seems strange that someone like Hamilton should either make that mistake or be at fault for the collision, but the simple matter of fact is, yes, it really was a rookie mistake, and one that cost him when it really shouldnt have, he got complacent, he paid the price.

I dont know what reasons there are to blame Kobayashi? He should of got out of it? Well he was at the furthest left of the track the whole way through, and all the time we see people that have been overtaken stay within inches of the overtaker cause they dont want to lose time, and theyre allowed and entitled to do that. Look at backmarkers, they get just out of the way then draft like the ferrari or whatever thats passing them right into the braking zone.

Kobayashi is faultless. He was on for a great result too.

[bud]

Shut up with that BS Andrew, you can talk with your Vettel bias! I'll use that same lame excuse for you ya wee man from now on ok! and it's very clear in ALL your posts your dislike for Lewis and McLaren so it doesn't surprise me one bit your one sided opinion on this... See it's polar you hypocrite

So Andrew you seem to think you know a lot about racing, what's your personal experience in the sport? Aside from following fast Germans? Lewis had track position for the corner he didn't check his mirrors because he thought he didn't have to, if he was racing a driver with brains and not a kamikaze then he would have made that corner no worries! He veered left because guess what... That was the racing line, after braking you usually don't expect a car to be on the left side of the track for a right hander, is is why they touched. Koby never wanted to yield even when he said post race he wasn't trying to fight Lewis because he was faster! That is a lie right there because if that were the case he would have pulled in behind Lewis knowing he was beaten to the corner. You say did Lewis expect koby to just vanish? No he expected him to pull in behind but what did koby expect Lewis to do? Just vaporize? Again your own bias is showing through
But you can say Lewis took the blame because he tweeted it, But PR is a big part of F1 I'm sure Lewis' reactions after the incident are more indicative of his real opinions.

I'm really sick of so called racing fans jumping on Lewis over every little incident. This weekend involved two of them in which he didn't even cause contact and you get the usually suspects circling like gutless vultures just waiting to jump on it.

You know what I cannot wait for misfortune for Alonso or Vettel because I will be right there to jump on it and let you fans of them know all about it, see how it looks from the other side!

Lauda is not a fan of Hamilton but to suggest there was malice in Lewis and koby is just plain distaste for a certain driver.

[andrew]

Shut up with that BS Andrew, you can talk with your Vettel bias! I'll use that same lame excuse for you ya wee man from now on ok! and it's very clear in ALL your posts your dislike for Lewis and McLaren so it doesn't surprise me one bit your one sided opinion on this... See it's polar you hypocrite

My Vettal bias, says someone who has a massive McLaren/Hamilton bias. We’re all biased towards the driver/team we support! You clearly have not read a single thing I have written and have conveniently ignored that I initaially thought it was a racing incident. I even said I think Hamilton could have won this race!

So Andrew you seem to think you know a lot about racing, what's your personal experience in the sport? Aside from following fast Germans? Lewis had track position for the corner he didn't check his mirrors because he thought he didn't have to, if he was racing a driver with brains and not a kamikaze then he would have made that corner no worries! He veered left because guess what... That was the racing line, after braking you usually don't expect a car to be on the left side of the track for a right hander, is is why they touched. Koby never wanted to yield even when he said post race he wasn't trying to fight Lewis because he was faster! That is a lie right there because if that were the case he would have pulled in behind Lewis knowing he was beaten to the corner. You say did Lewis expect koby to just vanish? No he expected him to pull in behind but what did koby expect Lewis to do? Just vaporize? Again your own bias is showing through
But you can say Lewis took the blame because he tweeted it, But PR is a big part of F1 I'm sure Lewis' reactions after the incident are more indicative of his real opinions.

You don’t need racing experience to state the bloody obvious and form an opinion from listening to and reading the words of those who know what they are taking about. But seeing as we are on this tack, please tell us all how many F1 races you have competed in.

I'm really sick of so called racing fans jumping on Lewis over every little incident. This weekend involved two of them in which he didn't even cause contact and you get the usually suspects circling like gutless vultures just waiting to jump on it.

All drivers make mistakes, Vettel's made plenty - it's all part of the sport. Are you saying we shouldn’t comment on them? As always, if you don’t like it, don’t read it. No skin off my nose.

You know what I cannot wait for misfortune for Alonso or Vettel because I will be right there to jump on it and let you fans of them know all about it, see how it looks from the other side!

So not looking to take the moral high ground or try and set a better example? Fair enough. Makes you a total hypocite. Moaning about others having a go at you guy then doing exactly the same thing.

Lauda is not a fan of Hamilton but to suggest there was malice in Lewis and koby is just plain distaste for a certain driver.

Oh so you know Niki Lauda? That must be pretty cool! He seems a top guy.

So all those times when Lauda has said he thinks Hamilton could be one of the best or that he is a fan of Hamilton were just lies? Seriously?!

No one is suggesting there is malice. All that is being said that Hamilton made a mistake. There doesn’t have to be any malice involved for someone to make a mistake.

But as usual, when challenged, you have resorted to keyboard warrior mode and rather than have a grown up and sensible discussion, you turn it into an over the top pitched battle.
Anyway, I'm done with you, go find someone else to be over aggressively argumentative with.

[killem2]

i this would have been on a hotlap, or in a race, I could see much more harsh penalties, this was after the flag dropped and it was over. I personally don't think it was out of spite, but it was a stupid move from maldando. He should have just kept going straight.

[racechick]

[Oh so you know Niki Lauda? That must be pretty cool! He seems a top guy.

Now i realise you HAVE to be joking!??

[andrew]

[Oh so you know Niki Lauda? That must be pretty cool! He seems a top guy.

Now i realise you HAVE to be joking!??

Why must I be joking? Are we not allowed to like Lauda on this forum? I must have missed this policy.

[racechick]

[Oh so you know Niki Lauda? That must be pretty cool! He seems a top guy.

Now i realise you HAVE to be joking!??

Why must I be joking? Are we not allowed to like Lauda on this forum? I must have missed this policy.

You can have the biggest love fest with Lauda you want. No rules against that.

[bud]

Keyboard warrior mode? Ok Mr Kettle... The fact you always have stupid comebacks like that says it all. Hardly anything keyboard warriorish in my post, But again you get a wee bit upset quite easily over the littlest thing I have found since you decided to grace our forum.
And I know from my own karting the ins and outs of overtaking, doesn't matter if it's in a NASCAR a kart or a dtm the fundamentals are the same as in f1.

But what ever go pick someone else to argue with, ( hope you dont mind me using your crappy material) I've seen some others who you've been rolling your eyes at lately, glad it's not just me

[andrew]

[Oh so you know Niki Lauda? That must be pretty cool! He seems a top guy.

Now i realise you HAVE to be joking!??

Why must I be joking? Are we not allowed to like Lauda on this forum? I must have missed this policy.

You can have the biggest love fest with Lauda you want. No rules against that.

So why must I be joking? Please explain, I'm intriged. They guy was an awsome racer in his day and speaks a lot of sense.