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[Blinky McSquinty]

These will always remain hypothetical arguments, and after a while become pointless and tiring but they're perpetually popular. Vettel has not beaten a team mate that was a world champion. That's only circumstantial, I understand and it's not proof that he wouldn't. While the argument (meaningful or not) that F1er is making, is that Hamilton has beaten two world champions in identical cars, one of which was during his rookie year going against a two time world champion.

I was expecting this, that somehow Hamilton's name would get dragged into a topic devoted soley to Vettel. It's just not fair comparing Vettel to Hamilton.

In 2007 Hamilton was partnered with Alonso, and although he did lead his teammate at season's end, he also was leading at midpoint of the season. Some say it was circumstances, some say he choked, point is he didn't deliver the goods.

And yes, in 2010 he was partnered with Button, and in the same pattern, finished the season ahead of Button, but after leading half way through the season, once again did not deliver the goods.

Vettel, although he wasn't partnered against a WDC, was not leading at mid-season. But in the end, he overcame a points defecit and under the immense pressure of the last race of the season, did deliver the goods. Even the circumstances of the last race of the season where the WDC was won is a stark contrast. Vettel was behind in the points, had to fight hard, and did. Hamilton was leading in the points, played a flawed and flaccid defence, and barely squeaked in. Someone can handle pressure better than another.

So, gentle readers, make up your own mind for yourself, and decide who's better, or worse at handling pressure. Do they settle down after a setback, and use their brains to recover, or do they just allow the red mist of rage to envelop them, and more often than not, make things worse?

There's been claims that Hamilton is better at close combat, fighting in mid-pack. I'm so sorry to hear that, it does sadden my heart at this dark revelation. For Vettel, his consistency and ability to deliver the goods keeps him away from the quagmire of flawed performance. If the driver does what the team asks, more often than not, they don't have to be mid-pack. Just look at Vettel's consistency and ability to deliver the goods. His team gives him the best car, they expect him to qualify on pole, and win. And it's freaking crazy just how many times he has done exactly that. And if a driver is able to execute the team's strategy, he doesn't have to fall back on plan "B".

If you're as good as they say, and your car is the third best on that weekend, then it is reasonable to expect a qualifying position reflecting the car's potential. Third fastest car should see both of the team's drivers qualified 5th and 6th. If one qualifies 10th, then he didn't deliver, and they have to fall back on plan "B" and have to fight mid-pack.

And heck, my driver is the best at backing out of a gravel trap. So once Vettel isn't qualifying on the pole with great regularity, and finally gets stuck in a gravel trap, then we'll see just how good he is up against my driver. Somehow, that statement seems a little ... is it weird, or just flawed?

Naw, comparisons between Vettel and Hamilton just isn't fair, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Vettel is the yougest driver to drive a Grand Prix (in a BMW Sauber), he is the youngest driver to score championship points (in a BMW Sauber). He's the youngest driver to lead a race (in a Toro Rosso)' as well as being the youngest driver to secure a pole position (in a Toro Rosso). Of course, he's the youngest driver to win a GP (in a Toro Rosso), and as the entire universe knows, the youngest driver to win a WDC (in a Red Bull). All of those honors he earned before the 2011 season, where it was honestly debatable whether the Red Bull was the best of the class. So he did all that before he stepped into an RB7.

So all this hooey about Vettel not being as good as someone else does not make sense because Vettel set a lot of records before he even stepped into a Red Bull. So once he finally did get a top car, look out.

And for the final comparison, even when Vettel is beaten, he grows a set and honestly admits so. He doesn`t hide behind excuses.

[What's Burning?]

I was expecting this, that somehow Hamilton's name would get dragged into a topic devoted soley to Vettel. It's just not fair comparing Vettel to Hamilton.

Your expectations were that a thread claiming that Sebastian Vettel was the best driver on the grid would not invoke the names of other drivers? Really?

It's all been said on the topic, so instead of beating the horse, feel free to read around.

Vettel is better than Webber (that's the only factual conclusion I've made about him) and is likely one of the top three or four drivers on the grid that's my opinion. You're allowed your opinion that Vettel is not only the best driver on the grid, but is perfection personified. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm simply saying I'd like more empirical proof.

Take care.

[Bubbie]

Vettel is better than Webber (that's the only factual conclusion I've made about him) and is likely one of the top three or four drivers on the grid that's my opinion. You're allowed your opinion that Vettel is not only the best driver on the grid, but is perfection personified. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm simply saying I'd like more empirical proof.

Take care.

By that logic then it cannot be said that Hamilton or Alonso are better than some of the back markers (if we want factual conclusions), since the back markers are in terrible cars.

However, many people are not discussing empirical evidence and discussing unknowns. I think we all agree (excepting some of the trolls on the board) that Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton (and Button as of late) are tremendous drivers and are the top of the heap in terms of their abilities to win in a Formula 1 car.

I long for a real Race of Champions like they used to have, not the stupid little dune buggy races they trot out nowadays.

[FRAFPDD]

I was expecting this, that somehow Hamilton's name would get dragged into a topic devoted soley to Vettel. It's just not fair comparing Vettel to Hamilton.

Your expectations were that a thread claiming that Sebastian Vettel was the best driver on the grid would not invoke the names of other drivers? Really?

It's all been said on the topic, so instead of beating the horse, feel free to read around.

Vettel is better than Webber (that's the only factual conclusion I've made about him) and is likely one of the top three or four drivers on the grid that's my opinion. You're allowed your opinion that Vettel is not only the best driver on the grid, but is perfection personified. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm simply saying I'd like more empirical proof.

Take care.

Your an absolute master of portraying perfectly what i want to say, without the unnecessary frustration of trying to explain it to apparent smackheads.....

[FRAFPDD]

His winning method is in qualfying, starting first. One dimensional by definition to me.

Being able to go quick and qualify first on the pole is just one part of the entire race weekend. It's like a chess splayer, this is the P-K4 move. Maybe to you that's the entire picture, but there's still the race to win. I do happen to believe such attributes as racecraft, being calm when required, and being aggressive when needed and only going as fast as needed to win are other qualities that come into play during the race. And those are just a few examples, a race is a long and eventful event and it's all too easy to mess up and not finish as well as expected. But that's exactly why I consider him the natural successor to Michael Schumacher, being able to meet or exceed expectations on a regular and consistent basis.

Disagree again even more then last time, Vettel has so far shown, that is, its not hearsay or wild speculation, he has actually PROVED he is a one dimensional driver. If he wasnt one dimensional, or rather one dimensional in the area he is in, he might not be leading the years world championship.

But that still doesnt make it any less true, Senna was pretty much one dimensional, wet races came rarely and he was great in that but his way of winning was getting a dominant pole and making himself a big gap from the race start, its never Sennas wins people talk about its his poles.

We've seen countless times how docile Vettel is in terms of confidence when actually fighting other drivers, thats not his game, he might be average to ok in it, but definitely no more then that, his racecraft is average to poor, but he doesnt need it to be any better.....yet.

There are a few of your descriptions of Vettel like " being calm when required" or " only going as fast as needed to win" that seem so specific that it seems its clutching at straws to find anything other then Vettels speed. All in all, im saying everything im saying based on EVIDENCE i have to make a intial conclusion on it, i, like many other fans want to see Vettel plonked right in the situation Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, Niki Lauda, Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, Kimi Raikonnen and so on, where they win championships in undominant cars, with amazing teammates, until then hes unproven.

It's always fun and entertaining to see different viewpoints. For some fans, all they seek is pure aggression, pure aggression, and pure aggression. For others, including myself, we look for true signs of racecraft, intelligent decisions, and the ability to deliver results. One of my most memorable moments is watching Teo Fabi smoke the field on a start. It was a rolling start in endurance cars, and he was on pole. Well, he messed with a lot of heads, and that resulted in him getting at least a pure and clean ten second hole shot. Great stuff, the sign of intelligence.

And above all, Vettel drives with his head. Some fans insist that the true measure of a race driver is going toe-to-toe and battling it out. Sort of like battling bozos. Alll you find out is who's the most desperate and who's willing to crash a car.

Vettel is not the one-dimensional driver who's only response to any and all questions is to hunker down, crank up the aggression, and attempt to go quicker. No, there are better and smarter ways to achieve the same goal. For instance at Silverstone, Vettel was stuck behind a floundering Hamilton and losing tons of time as Alonso was disappearing.

So what did he do? He was close, and it was obvious that if a pass presented itself, he would have slipped by. But he didn't push the issue, kept the big picture in mind, and found a much easier way to pass Hamilton without risking contact. Of course he didn't attempt to force a pass with Hamilton, that would have been stupid. Regardless of how anyone feels about Hamilton, the points situation makes him desperate for points, and he has a recent history of contact with others. Nobody likes that, but it's the simple, factual truth.

So Vettel traded off some pace at the end to pass Hamilton, and honesty, he made it look so simple. Duck into the pits, fresh rubber, lay down a time good enough to pass Hamilton, and voila, fait accomplis. That is so much easier, and smarter, than risking it all in a pointless battle. To me, it's mind-blowing. His team had a problem in the pits, and instead of trying harder to make up and possibly resulting in more mistakes, he remained calm, didn't try anything stupid, and in the end, recovered to second place.

Yes,he didn't win. But he recovered from a problem and finished second.


On a personal note, I am horrified and disgusted that you would label Senna as being one-dimensional. Wow, I'm amazed that the nation of Brazil hasn't declared war on you yet, because that's one heck of an insult to what is arguably the greatest driver in Formula One history.

It really sickens me that some fans are willing to throw handfulls of dung in an attempt to smear other drivers in order to elevate the status of their hero. It's really low, and shows they don't have much to argue with except with handfulls of dung. Really sickening, really low, really pathetic.

This whole post in my sole-ly personal and unique opinion is absolute rubbish, pure, rubbish.

Youve Contradicted yourself and plain lied about 100 times in one post. Somehow Hamilton amongst others no less are lacking RACECRAFT and Vettel has it in ABUNDANCE!?! , dear lord help me.

Your one of the very, VERY UN-unique Vettel fans that coincidentally with his teams success have popped up from absolutely nowhere and proceeded to hark the saviour coming with anything BUT facts.

Youve given Red Bull pit strategy to aid the suffering Vettel who couldnt get past Hamilton as Vettel "talent" what on earth is that about?, pit strategy from the team is not Vettels doing, he could of won the race if he wasnt so persistently poor in attempting to overtake Lewis. Sorry i completely forgot about Vettel bashing into a Force India in Silverstone 2010 to overtake, that totally proves hes a master overtaker

None of this is event o mention your post is ever so unsubtle in its digs at aggressive drivers, Vettel wants to be an aggressive driver, look at his cutting up at the start line, or destroying Buttons radiators in Belgium to show he means business , he hasnt got the balls or ability to do what Schumacher and Hamilton and Senna before them could do. Frighten the living daylights out of racers around them.

Keep telling yourself Vettels something special, Hamilton and Alonso are consistelny regarded a world away, and no matter what the statistics say, the Baby Schumacher, as much of an absolute brilliant personality and quick driver, will always have won in cars that were never going to lose.

[Hammer278]

Some people need to calm down...

Personally, I'm definitely in the Lewis camp but it's tough to say he's the best driver on the grid, its tough to say anyone is the best solely due to the nature of the sport - cars which aren't equal.

I judge my basis that Lewis is the best due to his skill in hanging the tail out at the ragged edge, especially when the track is wet. Car control and sheer speed is easy to see, and Lewis is definitely Senna-esque in that regard.

However, Sebastian has that Kimi speed where he performs like a machine, perfectly hitting apexes, fast into, out of a corner lap after lap. I don't think he can pull that 110% magic which people like Lewis and Alonso can pull out, however, he has the consistency every lap to back him up while the other two can make mistakes from time to time.

I rate Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel to be Top 3, and I'm sure for myself Hamilton leads this trio. However, it is very hard to back it up and to convince others (I don't see the point anyway)...but equally, fans of the other two should admit it is never going to be easy to prove either driver is the best on the grid...no way. It's all down to machinery and I just hope McLaren can provide a car as FAST as Redbull to Lewis...and I see him beating Vettel consistently due to stronger mentality and his racing skills. The odd mistake or two during an inlap/outlap could give the win to Vettel but rest of the times I really fail to see Lewis losing on a consistent basis in equal machinery.

[Four mules as one]

This whole thing about Vettel not being able to overtake Hamilton at Silverstone for me shows more that he is thinking of his overall championship result. From what I saw here was a driver with a massive lead in the championship points that had no need to take any stupid risks and eliminate both himself and his competitor. Fair enough, he might not have won the race but you cannot win them all so the best thing is to collect as many points as possible. Its drivers like that that are intelligent and know what the most important part of the series is all about, the WDC. Go back to 1991 Portuguese Grand Prix and you will see Senna get second and cleary state that it was a very important race for him championship wise cause Mansell didn't finish. Senna happy with coming second? A year after he blew up at Jackie Stewart about not being satisfied with second, sounds like Ayrton was maturing like a fine red wine to me.

And if we go for the whole, 'can't overtake him then therefore isn't as good as him' argument, then look at last years Adu Dhabi race, Alonso couldn't even overtake Petrov in order to win the WDC. If ever there was a time to overtake then that would be it. And this is a guy that we all rate up there with Hamilton and Vettel. Personally, I put Vettel as the best driver on the grid because he is dominating the championship like no one else has before. And I'm not really a fan of him, I think he's a good young kid but I know I gave him the big finger when he made a mistake to let Jenson win at Canada because I am a Webber fan. But his intelligence, speed and ability to read his racecraft is brilliant and I fully acknowledge that. I don't think he will dominate the second half of the championship as much until he gets to those circuits that suit the Red Bull, ie the last 4 tracks from last year. Personally I hope Alonso dominates the second half and Vettel has a few DNF's to make the championship at least interesting. And i must say, the more I watch him of late, the more I am becoming a fan of his. He is doing a brilliant job in a brilliant car.

[Big Azza]

I used to love the aggression of Hamilton, but I don't think that it always translates into results. You only need to look at Silverstone where he lost a lot of time trying to keep Vettel at bay, and then Vettel was able to successfully do the undercut on him. When the situation was reversed in Catalunya, it seemed that Vettel handled a similar situation differently, and in Monaco. You could see that he seemed to be calculating - "Where am I going to find the tenths needed to stay in front of these drivers come the DRS zone?" And I could see that every lap Vettel would get to a certain point where he'd take the exact same line each time, and eek out the exact same distance so that he would come out of the final corner with enough of a lead to counteract the DRS zone.

So I'm finding that these days I think the best drivers are those who are able to be calculating and not take too many risks. Hence, Button has soared rapidly in my favourite-driver charts. Why would Vettel attempt an overtake on Hamilton - who has a history of ending other driver's race chances when he knew it would be less of a risk to get him via the pits? At times I wish that Hamilton would make similar decisions...

Vettel can overtake if he needs to. He overtook Massa in Silverstone didn't he? He had to, in order to stand a chance of winning the race. At Catalunya he had to overtake 2 or 3 other drivers also on his out lap in order to make is strategy work. And when the strategy fails because of a botched pit stop, he will always try to extract the maximum that he can from what's available to him - like at Monaco - which I maintain that he could have won regardless of the Red Flag - it is difficult to overtake at Monaco anyway, and Vettel seems to do very well in managing his tires.

Last year Vettel had involved in 3 accidents that I can remember - how many mechanical failures? And Hamilton was involved in at least 2 accidents from memory.

In Canada, the apparently Vettel putting his car a few inches wide means that he cannot handle pressure. Hmmm... Let's look at the other drivers in that race: Webber takes 3 attempts to overtake Schumacher, and is saved by some generous run-off areas, Lewis runs into Webber, and then into a wall. Jenson takes out Alonso, Massa goes into wall trying to make a pass, Heidfeld and Di Resta lose their front wings, and there was shunt at the end with Petrov that brought out a timely safety car, and yet Vettel cops all the criticism for not being able to handle any pressure?

It's been really cheesing me off at other sites this absolute blatant bias for Hamilton while attempting to make Vettel look like a prick - because of his finger. Vettel has hardly said a thing wrong all season, actually throughout most of his time in Formula One, and yet it's absolutely commendable that other certain drivers can speak their mind...

[racechick]

Some people need to calm down...

Personally, I'm definitely in the Lewis camp but it's tough to say he's the best driver on the grid, its tough to say anyone is the best solely due to the nature of the sport - cars which aren't equal.

I judge my basis that Lewis is the best due to his skill in hanging the tail out at the ragged edge, especially when the track is wet. Car control and sheer speed is easy to see, and Lewis is definitely Senna-esque in that regard.

However, Sebastian has that Kimi speed where he performs like a machine, perfectly hitting apexes, fast into, out of a corner lap after lap. I don't think he can pull that 110% magic which people like Lewis and Alonso can pull out, however, he has the consistency every lap to back him up while the other two can make mistakes from time to time.

I rate Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel to be Top 3, and I'm sure for myself Hamilton leads this trio. However, it is very hard to back it up and to convince others (I don't see the point anyway)...but equally, fans of the other two should admit it is never going to be easy to prove either driver is the best on the grid...no way. It's all down to machinery and I just hope McLaren can provide a car as FAST as Redbull to Lewis...and I see him beating Vettel consistently due to stronger mentality and his racing skills. The odd mistake or two during an inlap/outlap could give the win to Vettel but rest of the times I really fail to see Lewis losing on a consistent basis in equal machinery.

Well put. My sentiments entirely. In fact lewis has had equal machinary in the past and even as a rookie he more than proved himself against the other top driver.
For me lewis is easily at the top of the three. And Id give alonso the edge over Vetel, but thats a hard one to prove.
Vetel used to annoy me (the finger and the screaming) but i find myself quite liking him now. Alonso.........wont ever like him But its nice having him there to beat

[What's Burning?]

Vettel is better than Webber (that's the only factual conclusion I've made about him) and is likely one of the top three or four drivers on the grid that's my opinion. You're allowed your opinion that Vettel is not only the best driver on the grid, but is perfection personified. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm simply saying I'd like more empirical proof.

Take care.

By that logic then it cannot be said that Hamilton or Alonso are better than some of the back markers (if we want factual conclusions), since the back markers are in terrible cars.

However, many people are not discussing empirical evidence and discussing unknowns. I think we all agree (excepting some of the trolls on the board) that Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton (and Button as of late) are tremendous drivers and are the top of the heap in terms of their abilities to win in a Formula 1 car.

I long for a real Race of Champions like they used to have, not the stupid little dune buggy races they trot out nowadays.

Correct! and I couldn't agree with you more... I have no issue in consistently applying that logic. Let them all compete on equal footing. (for fun of course) I'd like to see Kobayashi start from 24th position on the grid in an RB7 every race.

[Hammer278]

This whole thing about Vettel not being able to overtake Hamilton at Silverstone for me shows more that he is thinking of his overall championship result. From what I saw here was a driver with a massive lead in the championship points that had no need to take any stupid risks and eliminate both himself and his competitor. Fair enough, he might not have won the race but you cannot win them all so the best thing is to collect as many points as possible. Its drivers like that that are intelligent and know what the most important part of the series is all about, the WDC. Go back to 1991 Portuguese Grand Prix and you will see Senna get second and cleary state that it was a very important race for him championship wise cause Mansell didn't finish. Senna happy with coming second? A year after he blew up at Jackie Stewart about not being satisfied with second, sounds like Ayrton was maturing like a fine red wine to me.

COrrect...which Hamilton never had the opportunity for so far in his career. He's been chasing for the past two years in the car which ISN"T the best.

Yes, in his rookie year he was leading and he lost it. However, he didn't lose it by himself by crashing out, it was a strategic call from McLaren to leave him on bald tyres in the wet for a bit too long wasn't it? And it was his 'rookie season' for crying out loud.

I don't understand why its tough for people to understand the mentality of a driver who has a nice cushion, and another who is chasing. The guy with the fastest car and a nice cushion has options. the guy with the slower car has absolutely none, except to race as hard as he can in the machinery he has.

Who's to say if the roles were reversed and Lewis was stuck behind Vettel, he'd force an overtake? You can't say that, as you've never seen Lewis in that situation. So basing this argument in backing Vettel's 'ingenuity' in race craft is void.

[FRAFPDD]

I wish people would learn to display arguments how its commonly practiced, ive never seen EU government making nasty comments in their forums(real life forums) about France from the British ambassador cause of something that happened 400 years ago.

Facts are facts but theyre nothing without context, the latter of which is totally left out by fanboyish arguments.

Even when i was arguing about Prost being better then Senna i went above and beyond acknowledging, i put forward the context that Senna didnt finish as many races, but then looking even more in context you find out it was often his fault, whereas Prost made cars finish.

You can look at all that and work out no more context from it and then judge what you like from it, as long as everythings there.

But when the Hamilton fans refuse to accept he was favoured when he beat Alonso

Or Vettel fans that he has never won in a car that wont go down as one of the greatest in history. (Sorry i forgot Monza 2008 there, only once)

Or Alonso fans that despite his consistency hes not as good an on track car to car racer as Hamilton, infact nobody is bar Kobayashi.

Its just stupid, even more stupid that i feel compelled to say this every so often cause itll never stop, just an agenda push for MOST on here lets be honest.

[texasmr2]

I wish people would learn to display arguments how its commonly practiced, ive never seen EU government making nasty comments in their forums(real life forums) about France from the British ambassador cause of something that happened 400 years ago.

Facts are facts but theyre nothing without context, the latter of which is totally left out by fanboyish arguments.

Even when i was arguing about Prost being better then Senna i went above and beyond acknowledging, i put forward the context that Senna didnt finish as many races, but then looking even more in context you find out it was often his fault, whereas Prost made cars finish.

You can look at all that and work out no more context from it and then judge what you like from it, as long as everythings there.

But when the Hamilton fans refuse to accept he was favoured when he beat Alonso

Or Vettel fans that he has never won in a car that wont go down as one of the greatest in history. (Sorry i forgot Monza 2008 there, only once)

Or Alonso fans that despite his consistency hes not as good an on track car to car racer as Hamilton, infact nobody is bar Kobayashi.

Its just stupid, even more stupid that i feel compelled to say this every so often cause itll never stop, just an agenda push for MOST on here lets be honest.

Forumula1.net martyr we are now??

[Blinky McSquinty]

I'm not saying he isn't, I'm simply saying I'd like more empirical proof.

1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 204
2. Mark Webber Red Bull 124
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 112
4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 109
5. Jenson Button McLaren 109
6. Felipe Massa Ferrari 52
7. Nico Rosberg Mercedes Grand Prix 40
8. Nick Heidfeld Renault 34
9. Vitaly Petrov Renault 31
10. Michael Schumacher Mercedes Grand Prix 28
11. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 25
12. Adrian Sutil Force India F1 10
13. Jaime Alguersuari Scuderia Toro Rosso 9
14. Sergio Perez Sauber 8
15. Sebastien Buemi Scuderia Toro Rosso 8
16. Rubens Barrichello Williams 4
17. Paul di Resta Force India F1 2
18. Pastor Maldonado Williams 0
19. Pedro de la Rosa Sauber 0
20. Jarno Trulli Lotus F1 0
21. Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT F1 Team 0
22. Jerome d` Ambrosio Virgin Racing 0
23. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus F1 0
24. Timo Glock Virgin Racing 0
25. Narain Karthikeyan HRT F1 Team 0
26. Daniel Ricciardo HRT F1 Team 0

[FRAFPDD]

I used to love the aggression of Hamilton, but I don't think that it always translates into results. You only need to look at Silverstone where he lost a lot of time trying to keep Vettel at bay, and then Vettel was able to successfully do the undercut on him. When the situation was reversed in Catalunya, it seemed that Vettel handled a similar situation differently, and in Monaco. You could see that he seemed to be calculating - "Where am I going to find the tenths needed to stay in front of these drivers come the DRS zone?" And I could see that every lap Vettel would get to a certain point where he'd take the exact same line each time, and eek out the exact same distance so that he would come out of the final corner with enough of a lead to counteract the DRS zone

.

Do you not maybe think Hamilton kept Vettel behind as long as possible so he didnt win? Alonso winning meant the gap to the leader was increased less then it would have been should Vettel have won?
Again, giving Vettel credit for something he had no control over, the DRS zone in Spain was s*it, had Hamilton even got a front wing to Vettels tyre hed of outbroke him, he never got that close, how on earth is that Vettels decision, he knew from the get go that Hamilton was never going to get a good enough run, so he just broke normally.

So I'm finding that these days I think the best drivers are those who are able to be calculating and not take too many risks. Hence, Button has soared rapidly in my favourite-driver charts. Why would Vettel attempt an overtake on Hamilton - who has a history of ending other driver's race chances when he knew it would be less of a risk to get him via the pits? At times I wish that Hamilton would make similar decisions...

Erm....Vettel did attempt an overtake on Hamilton, what is wrong with you? He could not do it. He tried and he tried, and he COULD NOT DO IT.
Plain lying isnt going to get you any serious a repsonse then mine dude. Then the team thought to pit him, and this was........Vettels idea? Riiiiiiiiiigghhhttt As for Hamiltons history of ending other drivers race chances, they shouldnt be so disprespectful to challenge the greatest racer of our time should they, deserve all that they get.

Vettel can overtake if he needs to. He overtook Massa in Silverstone didn't he? He had to, in order to stand a chance of winning the race. At Catalunya he had to overtake 2 or 3 other drivers also on his out lap in order to make is strategy work. And when the strategy fails because of a botched pit stop, he will always try to extract the maximum that he can from what's available to him - like at Monaco - which I maintain that he could have won regardless of the Red Flag - it is difficult to overtake at Monaco anyway, and Vettel seems to do very well in managing his tires.

He needed to overtake Hamilton in Silverstone to win the race, he couldnt do it, lost the race........
I thought he could overtake if he needed to, he certainly went for it? Congrats to Vettel for an overtake on Massa, and 3 drivers on an outlap. Sign of a true great.

Last year Vettel had involved in 3 accidents that I can remember - how many mechanical failures? And Hamilton was involved in at least 2 accidents from memory.

Last year Hamilton made 32 overtake in the first 4 races, and you can only manage to muster up two accidents from memory......Christ Hamilton is dog s*it!

In Canada, the apparently Vettel putting his car a few inches wide means that he cannot handle pressure. Hmmm... Let's look at the other drivers in that race: Webber takes 3 attempts to overtake Schumacher, and is saved by some generous run-off areas, Lewis runs into Webber, and then into a wall. Jenson takes out Alonso, Massa goes into wall trying to make a pass, Heidfeld and Di Resta lose their front wings, and there was shunt at the end with Petrov that brought out a timely safety car, and yet Vettel cops all the criticism for not being able to handle any pressure?

Vettel cops all the criticism, did you get sand in your eyes on that race weekend, i think there were 6, might of been 7 detrimental threads on Hamilton that weekend, oh yeah and Lauda said hes going to kill someone. But your right only Vettel gets criticism.....

It's been really cheesing me off at other sites this absolute blatant bias for Hamilton while attempting to make Vettel look like a prick - because of his finger. Vettel has hardly said a thing wrong all season, actually throughout most of his time in Formula One, and yet it's absolutely commendable that other certain drivers can speak their mind...

Thats purely your driver winning so much that people will say stuff like that, same with Alonso, Hamilton ,Schumacher, all of them if they win they get it all, and youll have to learn to take that on the chin, i should add thats not what im doing in this post, i just saw some glaring contradictory or false statements that didnt tell the real or whole story and thought to challenge it. I like Vettel, if you saw him on Top Gear youd see what a legend he is. Just didnt like this post of yours lol.