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[What's Burning?]

Still, it's good to see someone driving at the top of their game so just sit back and enjoy that is what I say.

It's this argument that was beaten to death last year, yet it's still rationalized whenever situations like this come up. How can we sit back and "enjoy driving at the top of their game" when they're told to hold pace?

We saw some driving at the top of their game yesterday, Alonso, Hamilton, Perez, even Heidfeld... but not from the Red Bull camp, so please don't rationalize it.

[elfinitty]

Be sure these arent the only things going on the team radios,of course you know.If i were a fan of RBR,i would get disappointed in them too but by their side it could turn into another Turkey 2010 and if Mclaren or Ferrari gets better-umm i dont think they can catch up but lets say they can- ,they would be very dangerous for the battle of championship.Though i am a Webber fan and i feel sorry for him.he totally deserved to overtake and the 2nd place.

edit:I NEVER EVER agree with team orders but i tried to understand why and if it is reasonable to go too much angry about this

[Blinky McSquinty]

I'm personally opposed to any team orders, my philosophy is for each driver to fight hard, and never lay down, for anyone.

But Horner did give Webber the opportunity to fight Vettel, it went on for a few short laps. But it did happen. But near the end, it was time to forget individual goals and do what he's being paid for. Horner is paid a tidy sum to deliver a WDC and WCC. That's his job, to get the WDC and WCC, not amuse the fans, or make drivers happy.

It wasn't a popular decision, but it was the smart decision, it was the correct decision for the team interests.

And the results show it. Before Silverstone, Vettel was leading the WDC by 77 points. Now, it's 80. Webber has moved into second in the standings. And as far as the WCC, I believe they will set a record.

[What's Burning?]

I'm personally opposed to any team orders, my philosophy is for each driver to fight hard, and never lay down, for anyone.

Fair enough

But Horner did give Webber the opportunity to fight Vettel, it went on for a few short laps. But it did happen.

You have absolutely no proof of that, simply conjecture on your part, it can be argued that it was Webber getting too close for comfort in quickly eating up a couple of seconds off of Vettel's lead that let to the command.

But near the end, it was time to forget individual goals and do what he's being paid for. Horner is paid a tidy sum to deliver a WDC and WCC. That's his job, to get the WDC and WCC, not amuse the fans, or make drivers happy.

It wasn't a popular decision, but it was the smart decision, it was the correct decision for the team interests.

Somewhat of a hypocritical comment to make given your opening statement of drivers being allowed to race, but if you're a Red Bull supporter, then it's understandable just doomed to fail or cause conflict at least trying to have your cake and eat it too.

And the results show it. Before Silverstone, Vettel was leading the WDC by 77 points. Now, it's 80. Webber has moved into second in the standings. And as far as the WCC, I believe they will set a record.

Given their WCC lead nothing would have changed numerically from a points standpoint. With the lead that Vettel had of 77 points it's says that they have little confidence in the driver being touted as the best in the sport currently and only serves to further alienate their number two driver. But each team chooses what suits them best.

[F1er]

Vettel is the reigning WDC so it's safe to say he should be trusted to race without crashing,no? Then Horner makes this comment.............


"We did not want to see our drivers in the fence in the last two laps, which is how it would have ended up,"

So he has no faith in Vettel's race craft which most of us none fans have been suspect about. Vettel is fast when leading in a rocket car,but below average when in traffic.

[Ichabod]

It was my understanding that Red Bull were telling MW to hold the gap for more than 5 laps
Webber said on the BBC
He also said he decided to ignore the order, but found it tough
with the amount of radio he was receiving !

Is the radio traffic published anywhere ?

[Frontrunner]

It does seem that the chances of Mark driving for Red bull next year has taken a bit of a blow. Will the team find someone else to play number 2 or will Mark just leave knowing he's not getting a fair go. Not many options for Mark though Its only Red Bull or someone like Renault maybe are his only chances for a drive next year as all the good seats are pretty much locked in.

[Flynn]

Were Red Bull too blatant in their team orders? They could land themselves a big fine if they do it as obviously with them being illegal and all

<MERGED> WB. as it this is already being discussed in the I feel cheated with RB thread.

[McLaren]

I thought you could use team orders this year

[vaptin]

Team orders are legal, completely legal.

To stop stupid things like coded messages happening.

It's easier this way, Redbull can be upfront about it.

[f1ea]

They're legal.

Most of us were hoping for Mark to pass Vettel or some little contact... but RB did the most logical thing.

Horner is in the bussiness of winning. Not in pleasing Ferrari or Mclaren fans.

[What's Burning?]

They're legal.

Most of us were hoping for Mark to pass Vettel or some little contact... but RB did the most logical thing.

Horner is in the bussiness of winning. Not in pleasing Ferrari or Mclaren fans.

There's probably a lot of Australians that would disagree with you.

[Drthjustice]

I don't think it's just these fans or those fans. I think it dissapoints the majority of fans no matter what their affiliation. Anything like that IMO is good for the sport (team mates hitting each other). It brings more press to the sport and makes it more exciting for the fans. I'm a big Mclaren fan and while it did pain me somewhat to see Lewis and Jenson come together in Montreal, I think it made the overall race more exciting. People like the crazy and unexpected so just give people what they like.

[nish2280]

I dont think when Horner says that he expected the two to crash he means he doesnt think of Vettel's racecraft lowly but rather that Mark is known to be a dirty overtaker who doesnt mind getting a bit of contact. Just look at his overtaking and defending, its always pretty close to contact.

And we all remember what happened last time the two came together.

I agree with him when he says that the risk of the two taking each other out was not worth the three point difference.

[What's Burning?]

I dont think when Horner says that he expected the two to crash he means he doesnt think of Vettel's racecraft lowly but rather that Mark is known to be a dirty overtaker who doesnt mind getting a bit of contact. Just look at his overtaking and defending, its always pretty close to contact.

And we all remember what happened last time the two came together.

I agree with him when he says that the risk of the two taking each other out was not worth the three point difference.

How easily we forget that Helmut Marko very vociferous comments on Ferrari's decisions last year... my favorite though is this little gem from none other than Horner. Just precious.

“I think that it’s wrong for the sport. The drivers should’ve been allowed to race.”