FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
#264189
spice things up and improve the spectacle of the current F1 season which many observers feel is boring?


I don't think it's boring (apart from Valencia and Vettel's constant winning). Otherwise, the racing's been great.


I don't think it is boring but when you get someone like JV splattering their opinion all over the place the opinion of us lot fades into insignificance.
#264203
spice things up and improve the spectacle of the current F1 season which many observers feel is boring?


I don't think it's boring (apart from Valencia and Vettel's constant winning). Otherwise, the racing's been great.


I don't think it is boring but when you get someone like JV splattering their opinion all over the place the opinion of us lot fades into insignificance.


Aye, it's quite deflating. But JV, like Eddie Irvine, is just a bitter old fart who still wishes he was racing, and tries to make it seem all doom and gloom nowadays, while creating some hyperbolic rose tinted spectacles to look back, misty-eyed, to what it was like back in their day. :vomit:
#264399
Can I please once again cast everyone's attention to Catalunya? Vettel also won that race because of two overtakes on his outlap, when he came out of pits.

He had to get past those two drivers losing as little time as possible, otherwise he would be behind Hamilton. Whoa and behold - Vettel pulled off enough to be in front - and then he had the superb defensive driving for the rest of the race. In my opinion, that whole race was the best highlight of the year for me.

And then watching how he was forced to do the same thing in Monaco, on tires that were likely already reduced to shreds. He did exactly the same thing he had done in Catalunya - find enough tenths in the first umpteen corners to make sure that he had enough of a gap before the DRS zone. At times Alonso did get up close to Vettel - I remember him taking a look down the inside of Vettel, but then Vettel closed the door. Vettel was more than happy to do it - just unfortunately the circumstances of the race prevented us from watching the rest of the scenario play out.

If Petrov didn't crash, and Vettel was able to hold off both Alonso and Button for the rest of the race, we would be worshiping Vettel. :twisted:

One thing I've found with motor-racing fandom, it is always full of the ifs and speculation about what would've happen if this didn't happen. But in most races we see someone gets luckier than the rest, or pulls off a better strategy than the rest. At the end of the race the facts and the final results speak for themselves. Although I don't believe in karma, I do believe that the luck usually evens out.

Many people have their reasons for why Hamilton didn't win the title last year (Monza), and also for Webber (Korea), and Alonso (Monaco) and how Vettel could've wrapped up the championship a lot sooner. At the end of the day, in my opinion, each driver has an equal element of luck - and the experienced racers understand that luck is just a part of motorsport. What it highlights is that when your chance presents itself, you must do your absolute best to "extract the maximum" (Vettel's line) out of that scenario.

Vettel is the best at extracting the maximum out of each scenario this year, I believe, which is the reason why he is so far on top this year. He extracted the maximum in Catalunya and Monaco, and shouldn't be faulted for it. Just like how Hamilton "extracted the maximum" in China, and Button in Canada. In Canada Vettel didn't "extract the maximum" the fact is that he could've very well won that race. But as many say, it was likely that Button was always going to catch Vettel. However, Vettel still didn't "extract the maximum" out of that situation. He should've kept leading to the DRS zone, and also put in a valiant effort to hold Button off in the zone. Then we could say that Vettel "extracted the maximum from that race."

You cannot call a driver lucky - you should give him credit for extracting the maximum.
#264400
Poor Webber, is really making Red Bull look bad this year.


I like to think his inconsistent KERS system for the first 4/5 races and a failing gearbox and steering wheel in canada and valencia, respectively, are doing that, not webber.
#264407
Poor Webber, is really making Red Bull look bad this year.


I like to think his inconsistent KERS system for the first 4/5 races and a failing gearbox and steering wheel in canada and valencia, respectively, are doing that, not webber.


Pretty trivial matters for a team which is completely dominating this season don't you think?

How many 'problems' has Vettel had this season with the car? Apart from the need to on/off KERS during races....hmmm....
#264429
Poor Webber, is really making Red Bull look bad this year.


I like to think his inconsistent KERS system for the first 4/5 races and a failing gearbox and steering wheel in canada and valencia, respectively, are doing that, not webber.


I've been misquoted. Now I know how Niki Lauda feels. :hehe:

I think it would be quite a hollow victory. Won only because of the restrictions on the EBD.


I guess every victory against RB rings hollow this year as they have to make a mistake to be beaten given their car's (and driver) superiority. So they blew a tire strategy in China, Seb put a wheel wrong (by 10 cm) in Canada, will there be anything else?

Poor Webber, is really making Red Bull look bad this year.
#264444
Seb coulnt do this in a Mercedes or Ferrari, while he is a fast driver no doubt, but Red bull cars are just way out of pace versus them other teams :(
Not to mention what happens when he gets overtaken or when he is a few places offf the grid. Mark proved to be one hell of a driver.
When Seb needs to start a few places back, he struggles so hard to win a race.

Dont get me wrong here , Vettel is a great driver, but certanly not the best of the grid.
#264616
Is there anyone who believes the most important characteristics of a great soccer player is to be fast and have a hard shot? Of course not, those are only requirements to get to that stage, many other skills and abilities then come into play, such as the ability to read defence and make that beautiful set-up pass (for example).

It's the same in racing, that being quick is one of the most important measures of a driver, but many other additional skills and attributes are necessary to be considered one of the best. Vettel broke into Formula One, and the only dimension we saw at that time was his raw pace. In 2006 when he stepped into a temporary seat in BMW Sauber, he set the fastest time in second Friday Free Practice at Hungary. Then at Monza, he set the fastest time in both Friday practice sessions. Ok, so he's quick, but is he just a one-dimensional driver?

Over the years he has grown, and along the way displayed mastery of different skills in racing. His win in a Toro Rosso at Monza demonstrated he's proficient in the wet.

But he's also displayed mistakes, his growth was sometimes painful to watch as he occasionally made them. But finally, he got his chance in 2010 and despite a very interesting season, kept it all together and walked away with the WDC. That does indicate he can handle the pressure, and not get flustered and choke when it's all on the line.

So here we are in 2011 and the reigning WDC, in a superior car is looking invincible. And so far, after eight races, the list of any errors he has made is a small one. Out of a possible 200 points theoretically possible at this point, he has 186. That's like a rugby player getting 20 passes a game, and only mishandling it once.

Sebastien Vettel has demonstrated he is not a one-dimensional driver, and is very capable of driving with the big picture in mind. Many greats, notably Prost exibited this trait. He has grown and matured, and at present displays few, if any weaknesses. Most times (with the exception of Montreal) he handles the pressures and keeps the car on the road.

It's debatable whether he is the quickest driver on the grid, but without a doubt, he is on the brink of being considered a great racer.
#264618
Disagree entirely, two wins where he didnt start in pole, he was in first place by the first corner on a slow starting webber.


His winning method is in qualfying, starting first. One dimensional by definition to me.

Like that or lump it, i dont care, its as true as itll ever be.
#264620
Can I please once again cast everyone's attention to Catalunya? Vettel also won that race because of two overtakes on his outlap, when he came out of pits.


To be fair, had it not been for the fact that the Ferraris were woeful on the hard tyre, I don't think Vettel would have crossed the line first in Spain.
#264621
His winning method is in qualfying, starting first. One dimensional by definition to me.


Being able to go quick and qualify first on the pole is just one part of the entire race weekend. It's like a chess splayer, this is the P-K4 move. Maybe to you that's the entire picture, but there's still the race to win. I do happen to believe such attributes as racecraft, being calm when required, and being aggressive when needed and only going as fast as needed to win are other qualities that come into play during the race. And those are just a few examples, a race is a long and eventful event and it's all too easy to mess up and not finish as well as expected. But that's exactly why I consider him the natural successor to Michael Schumacher, being able to meet or exceed expectations on a regular and consistent basis.
#265293
Poor Webber, is really making Red Bull look bad this year.


I like to think his inconsistent KERS system for the first 4/5 races and a failing gearbox and steering wheel in canada and valencia, respectively, are doing that, not webber.


Pretty trivial matters for a team which is completely dominating this season don't you think?

How many 'problems' has Vettel had this season with the car? Apart from the need to on/off KERS during races....hmmm....


One would think KERS is NOT trivial, given that the top half of the grid all have it. And not being able to properly downshift is a pretty big :censored: deal. Vettel has had less problems with his car than mark has had with his, but I don't say this to start any conspiracies or anything, I swear!! I've only noted that last year vettel was cursed with reliability problems and this year webber is the one cursed. Maybe next year they'll have everything worked out :twisted:
#265337
I'm not using the context of 'trivial' from a drivers perspective, but from a team's perspective.

For Redbull, to have gearbox issues and STEERING issues (wtf) for only 1 driver.....it's strange. The smallest things matter, and maybe the finest details are reserved more for their "no.1" driver that's what I'm saying.

And yeah, I am trying to stir the pot. Wasn't accusing you of doing it. :D
#265350
His winning method is in qualfying, starting first. One dimensional by definition to me.


Being able to go quick and qualify first on the pole is just one part of the entire race weekend. It's like a chess splayer, this is the P-K4 move. Maybe to you that's the entire picture, but there's still the race to win. I do happen to believe such attributes as racecraft, being calm when required, and being aggressive when needed and only going as fast as needed to win are other qualities that come into play during the race. And those are just a few examples, a race is a long and eventful event and it's all too easy to mess up and not finish as well as expected. But that's exactly why I consider him the natural successor to Michael Schumacher, being able to meet or exceed expectations on a regular and consistent basis.


Disagree again even more then last time, Vettel has so far shown, that is, its not hearsay or wild speculation, he has actually PROVED he is a one dimensional driver. If he wasnt one dimensional, or rather one dimensional in the area he is in, he might not be leading the years world championship.

But that still doesnt make it any less true, Senna was pretty much one dimensional, wet races came rarely and he was great in that but his way of winning was getting a dominant pole and making himself a big gap from the race start, its never Sennas wins people talk about its his poles.

We've seen countless times how docile Vettel is in terms of confidence when actually fighting other drivers, thats not his game, he might be average to ok in it, but definitely no more then that, his racecraft is average to poor, but he doesnt need it to be any better.....yet.

There are a few of your descriptions of Vettel like " being calm when required" or " only going as fast as needed to win" that seem so specific that it seems its clutching at straws to find anything other then Vettels speed. All in all, im saying everything im saying based on EVIDENCE i have to make a intial conclusion on it, i, like many other fans want to see Vettel plonked right in the situation Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, Niki Lauda, Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso, Kimi Raikonnen and so on, where they win championships in undominant cars, with amazing teammates, until then hes unproven.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 8

See our F1 related articles too!