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[andrew]

Outracing someone is not what happens when a team screws up a tyre strategy. A driver ahead making a small mistake is not outracing.

Outracing to me is what happens when you see a tough on-track battle with nothing to distract (no safety cars, stange weather conditions etc etc) and one of them comes out ahead.

[bud]

Let's not forget Monaco, Seb lucked into that win there!

You can't take away a win because the team was out strategised. Winning in F1 is about getting everything right, driver car package strategy.
You need to get it all right to win, Seb and RB didn't in China, they were out raced!

[F1er]

He also thinks Medals,Sprinklers and Shortcuts are Great Ideas.

[FRAFPDD]

Outracing someone is not what happens when a team screws up a tyre strategy. A driver ahead making a small mistake is not outracing.

Outracing to me is what happens when you see a tough on-track battle with nothing to distract (no safety cars, stange weather conditions etc etc) and one of them comes out ahead.

So then Vettel has outraced nobody this year?

[andrew]

Outracing someone is not what happens when a team screws up a tyre strategy. A driver ahead making a small mistake is not outracing.

Outracing to me is what happens when you see a tough on-track battle with nothing to distract (no safety cars, stange weather conditions etc etc) and one of them comes out ahead.

So then Vettel has outraced nobody this year?

He hasn't really had to race anyone seeing as he keeps sticking the car on pole. Out-driven is probably more accurate seeing as he has made, I think, one mistake so far and has been virtually unchallenged.

[Bubbie]

China was less to do with poor strategy than a radio malfunction on the Red Bull. Vettel was unable to provide feedback to the pits on the condition of his tires and was therefore stuck on track as a sitting duck.

I believe he could have held off Button and Alonso in Monaco even without the Red Flag.

Canada he was going to lose whether he went wrong or not. Button would have had him at the DRS spot. Button drove an amazing race in Canada and surely outraced Vettel. However Berndt Mylander needs to be given some of the credit for that win since Vettel had a couple very comfortable leads stripped by the safety car.

In Barcelona it was great to see Vettel and Hamilton dueling.

Vettel is very talented and the car is above the rest. I don't necessarily think he is the best on the grid, but he is up there in the top 3. Each of the 3 have their strengths. And lets not forget that maybe there are some awesome people further down the grid that just don't have the machinery to compete with the big boys (Rosberg, MSC, Heidfeld, etc). BTW, what the heck happened to Renault, they were mighty at the beginning of the season and have completely fallen off the pace.

[killem2]

Oh well, Lewis will show them all who's boss at the weekend imo.

I hope ure right. I think the hot blown diffuser ban will affect McLaren badly. Their car has suffered poor downforce right from the start. The hot blown diffuser has maked it somewhat... In my uintechnical opinion. I still hope for Silverstone magic.

I think it would be quite a hollow victory. Won only because of the restrictions on the EBD.

Sad that F1 now has an air of if "you can't beat them, don't bother joining them, just get their potential advantage banned".

What next, banning wheels on the Red Bulls as they are deemed to be a movable aerodynamic device?

Damn, I'm cynical.

Can it be said that the only reason Seb IS WINNING is because of this? You make it sound like they don't deserve it because of this ban, but yet seb DOES deserve it because a peice of mechanical might is putting him above the likes of Alonzo and hamiliton and button? (not saying that is the real reason for his sucess, we don't know yet but if he loses in a bad way, one could make that conclusion)

[myownalias]

I take everything Bernie says with a pinch of salt... Vettel is definitely one of the best; that said it's easy to win in a car that is streets ahead of everyone else. Maybe the off throttle engine mapping ban will make a difference? Vettel seems untouchable now but if he has to really fight for his wins; will he be so great?

[andrew]

Can it be said that the only reason Seb IS WINNING is because of this? You make it sound like they don't deserve it because of this ban, but yet seb DOES deserve it because a peice of mechanical might is putting him above the likes of Alonzo and hamiliton and button? (not saying that is the real reason for his sucess, we don't know yet but if he loses in a bad way, one could make that conclusion)

I think Vettel would still be winning if the EBD didn't exist on any car, but for sure things would be closer and I don't think the Red Bulls would be so dominant.

What I am getting at is that the restriction on the EBD seems to be aimed soley at stopping Red Bull due to a couple teams kicking up a stink. As I said, if you can't beat them, don't even bother joining but get their possible advantage banned. This is what irks me. Kind of stifles innovation or pushing the reg's to the limit.

[racechick]

I take everything Bernie says with a pinch of salt... Vettel is definitely one of the best; that said it's easy to win in a car that is streets ahead of everyone else. Maybe the off throttle engine mapping ban will make a difference? Vettel seems untouchable now but if he has to really fight for his wins; will he be so great?

Nah

[vaptin]

Can it be said that the only reason Seb IS WINNING is because of this? You make it sound like they don't deserve it because of this ban, but yet seb DOES deserve it because a peice of mechanical might is putting him above the likes of Alonzo and hamiliton and button? (not saying that is the real reason for his sucess, we don't know yet but if he loses in a bad way, one could make that conclusion)

I think Vettel would still be winning if the EBD didn't exist on any car, but for sure things would be closer and I don't think the Red Bulls would be so dominant.

What I am getting at is that the restriction on the EBD seems to be aimed soley at stopping Red Bull due to a couple teams kicking up a stink. As I said, if you can't beat them, don't even bother joining but get their possible advantage banned. This is what irks me. Kind of stifles innovation or pushing the reg's to the limit.

I think its more of a case of the regulations being so tight, any innovation which allows the teams to get ahead is breaking at least the spirit of the rules.

[andrew]

Can it be said that the only reason Seb IS WINNING is because of this? You make it sound like they don't deserve it because of this ban, but yet seb DOES deserve it because a peice of mechanical might is putting him above the likes of Alonzo and hamiliton and button? (not saying that is the real reason for his sucess, we don't know yet but if he loses in a bad way, one could make that conclusion)

I think Vettel would still be winning if the EBD didn't exist on any car, but for sure things would be closer and I don't think the Red Bulls would be so dominant.

What I am getting at is that the restriction on the EBD seems to be aimed soley at stopping Red Bull due to a couple teams kicking up a stink. As I said, if you can't beat them, don't even bother joining but get their possible advantage banned. This is what irks me. Kind of stifles innovation or pushing the reg's to the limit.

I think its more of a case of the regulations being so tight, any innovation which allows the teams to get ahead is breaking at least the spirit of the rules.

Possible. To me, part of F1 is finding the holes in the reg's and having the cajones to exploit these through innovation and other such legal means (ahem). That's what seperates the wheat from the chaff.

I don't agree with the whole spirit of the reg's thing (agree with your comment, just plain don't like the existence of the "spirit of the reg's" argument). It should be the reg's are the reg's and that is the end of it. No spirit of the reg's stuff and no midseason rule changes, unless on safety grounds.

[vaptin]

Can it be said that the only reason Seb IS WINNING is because of this? You make it sound like they don't deserve it because of this ban, but yet seb DOES deserve it because a peice of mechanical might is putting him above the likes of Alonzo and hamiliton and button? (not saying that is the real reason for his sucess, we don't know yet but if he loses in a bad way, one could make that conclusion)

I think Vettel would still be winning if the EBD didn't exist on any car, but for sure things would be closer and I don't think the Red Bulls would be so dominant.

What I am getting at is that the restriction on the EBD seems to be aimed soley at stopping Red Bull due to a couple teams kicking up a stink. As I said, if you can't beat them, don't even bother joining but get their possible advantage banned. This is what irks me. Kind of stifles innovation or pushing the reg's to the limit.

I think its more of a case of the regulations being so tight, any innovation which allows the teams to get ahead is breaking at least the spirit of the rules.

Possible. To me, part of F1 is finding the holes in the reg's and having the cajones to exploit these through innovation and other such legal means (ahem). That's what seperates the wheat from the chaff.

I don't agree with the whole spirit of the reg's thing (agree with your comment, just plain don't like the existence of the "spirit of the reg's" argument). It should be the reg's are the reg's and that is the end of it. No spirit of the reg's stuff and no midseason rule changes, unless on safety grounds.

Not the case with the blown diffuser though, thats said to have been breaking an actual rule.

But yeah, I was making the point that almost the only room for manovoure is by circumvating something the FIA actually want to have banned (implying the FIA have restricted all the good stuff of course), whereas more open regulations would allow teams to do "extra" stuff, without actually appearing to go against the regulations.

[andrew]

Sounds right.

Ties in with the FIA being happy with the EBD then they decide to change the rules regarding the EBD nearly halfway into the season. Just don't sit right with me.

I don't understand who something that was legal at the start of the season is now illegal and has to be altered (in this case reducing the effectivness of the EBD). I wonder if the F1 ringmaster (MrE) has had a word with the FIA, and some of the rival teams, and has asked that something be done to spice things up and improve the spectacle of the current F1 season which many observers feel is boring?

[LewEngBridewell]

spice things up and improve the spectacle of the current F1 season which many observers feel is boring?

I don't think it's boring (apart from Valencia and Vettel's constant winning). Otherwise, the racing's been great.