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[darwin dali]

Does a V shaped engine make any difference at all apart from being able to fit more cylinders in a smaller footprint? I remember seeing a while back a car which I can not remember the name of which had a V5 engine; which baffled me; I thought that V shaped engines needed to be in pairs of cylinders!

I actually owned a V5 VW golf. The V config with odd cylinders baffled the hell out of me too though.

Completely moving away from the topic; but from what I understand; a V5 engine is not at all a V-shaped configuration; it a double width block with staggered two left, three right cylinders.

Now that mystery is solved; back on subject

Volkswagen introduced the first V5 engine, though this engine is not a true twin-bank V engine, but rather a VR5, or staggered bank straight-5 engine, and therefore not a true V5. It does not have one cylinder bank with 2 cylinders and one with 3; rather, it has all 5 cylinders sharing a single bank. The engine is derived from the VR6, and is thus a staggered 5, and has much in common with Volkswagen's earlier straight 5 developed in the 1980s for the Passat and Audi Quattro.

I said back on topic damn it.... and you could at least have plagiarised a little instead of copy/paste from Wikipedia!

Nah, instead of plagia...
[youtube]qCVQpcY1au4[/youtube]

[darwin dali]

Does a V shaped engine make any difference at all apart from being able to fit more cylinders in a smaller footprint? I remember seeing a while back a car which I can not remember the name of which had a V5 engine; which baffled me; I thought that V shaped engines needed to be in pairs of cylinders!

I actually owned a V5 VW golf. The V config with odd cylinders baffled the hell out of me too though.

Completely moving away from the topic; but from what I understand; a V5 engine is not at all a V-shaped configuration; it a double width block with staggered two left, three right cylinders.

Now that mystery is solved; back on subject

Volkswagen introduced the first V5 engine, though this engine is not a true twin-bank V engine, but rather a VR5, or staggered bank straight-5 engine, and therefore not a true V5. It does not have one cylinder bank with 2 cylinders and one with 3; rather, it has all 5 cylinders sharing a single bank. The engine is derived from the VR6, and is thus a staggered 5, and has much in common with Volkswagen's earlier straight 5 developed in the 1980s for the Passat and Audi Quattro.

I said back on topic damn it.... and you could at least have plagiarised a little instead of copy/paste from Wikipedia!

Shhhhh! It could have been worse, we don't need to see another Eddie Izzard or Robin Williams clip.

I can mix it up a bit as seen above

[Frontrunner]

The way things are going now F1 could have 1 or 2 engine suppliers in the future, hell why don't they just make it a controlled engine formula.

[Hammer278]

Why not take a Prius engine and make it the controlled engine? Environmental friendly, and slow...the teams can do whatever they want to aerodynamics, diffusers, double, quadrupe diffusers, slicks, turbo it......they will never be fast enough to be dangerous.

We could call it Formula Slow.

[Frontrunner]

Why not take a Prius engine and make it the controlled engine? Environmental friendly, and slow...the teams can do whatever they want to aerodynamics, diffusers, double, quadrupe diffusers, slicks, turbo it......they will never be fast enough to be dangerous.

We could call it Formula Slow.

Do you work for the FIA??

[CarBore]

If Toyota come back to F1 engines they could just bore out a 1.5L Prius engine and stick a turbo on it

[scotty]

Bring on the new engines i say. Yeah, the powers that be say they'll only be about 600bhp but they'll clearly be far better than that (nearly up to what we have now, for my money) cause the engineers always seem to outsmart those who make the rules by ridiculous margins (just see the aero changes in 08/09!), then if you add the extra KERS power on top... all adds up to some mighty power.

On top of that there's everything that will return that's gone away since the engine freeze... things like reliability issues, different cars suiting different tracks due to engine power, etc etc etc.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

A V-4 is inherently inferior to an L-4, in dynamics and, in turbocharged applications, in performance as well. In fact, a straight engine almost always is dynamically superior to a V with the same number of cylinders ...at least until you get to 12. The L-4 at least has perfect primary balance, whereas the V-4 is a box full of non-canceling imperfections.

Honda are the only wizards who've managed to build a V-4 that didn't need more counterbalancers than cylinders. But their solution involves a rather small displacement (up to 1.2L) and an offset crank pin, which limits potential for scaling it up. It does offer some packaging options that a straight four does not , options that are relevant mostly to 2 and 3-wheeled applications. Which explains why the world is full of L-4s but outside of motorcycles, V-4s are an oddity.

The wizards at Honda also built a true V-5 for their GP bike in the early oughties:



Behold, the V-5 from the Honda RC211V.

And to Rinnow, I say, mes amis, je vous prie ne laissez pas la porte, vous donner la fessée quand vous repartez.

[texasmr2]

Fred you have my vote as the new tech guru of the forum as some of the info you post is amazing so thanks .

[Bubbie]

So let me get this straight. If we go to the new engines, Mercedes and Ferrari walk. If we stay away from puny little 4's Renault walks.

Am I wrong in saying Buh-Bye to Renault already?

[CarBore]

I don't know if Merc as as strongly opposed as Ferrari. Merc still have something to gain while Ferrari have said black and white that engine configuration is of no interest to us bottom a company

[myownalias]

I think it's all posturing by all sides; why would Renault walk away should the L4 not transpire; they still have the V8 engine they use currently. Ferrari huff and puff on a constant basis and threaten to leave F1 but haven't left yet! Mercedes are probably developing a L4 turbo but is keeping it hush, hush, If Ferrari are not developing a L4 turbo then they would be stupid; it's not like money is any object for Ferrari. What needs to happen is that the FIA need to grow a pair and stick to their guns instead of oo'ing and ah'ing about it!

[vaptin]

I think it's all posturing by all sides; why would Renault walk away should the L4 not transpire; they still have the V8 engine they use currently. Ferrari huff and puff on a constant basis and threaten to leave F1 but haven't left yet! Mercedes are probably developing a L4 turbo but is keeping it hush, hush, If Ferrari are not developing a L4 turbo then they would be stupid; it's not like money is any object for Ferrari. What needs to happen is that the FIA need to grow a pair and stick to their guns instead of oo'ing and ah'ing about it!

Road cars, thats why most of them are in it. F1 provides excellent marketing for road cars.

I'm not sure how separate Scuderia Ferrari is from the rest of Ferrari though, or Ferrari from the rest of fiat. I'm guessing the former not very much, and the latter considerably.

[What's Burning?]

I think it's all posturing by all sides; why would Renault walk away should the L4 not transpire; they still have the V8 engine they use currently. Ferrari huff and puff on a constant basis and threaten to leave F1 but haven't left yet! Mercedes are probably developing a L4 turbo but is keeping it hush, hush, If Ferrari are not developing a L4 turbo then they would be stupid; it's not like money is any object for Ferrari. What needs to happen is that the FIA need to grow a pair and stick to their guns instead of oo'ing and ah'ing about it!

Road cars, thats why most of them are in it. F1 provides excellent marketing for road cars.

I'm not sure how separate Scuderia Ferrari is from the rest of Ferrari though, or Ferrari from the rest of fiat. I'm guessing the former not very much, and the latter considerably.

Scuderia Ferrari is how Ferrari advertises their cars. It's cheaper than television ads and they get a global audience they'd never be able to reach with an ad agency.

[vaptin]

I think it's all posturing by all sides; why would Renault walk away should the L4 not transpire; they still have the V8 engine they use currently. Ferrari huff and puff on a constant basis and threaten to leave F1 but haven't left yet! Mercedes are probably developing a L4 turbo but is keeping it hush, hush, If Ferrari are not developing a L4 turbo then they would be stupid; it's not like money is any object for Ferrari. What needs to happen is that the FIA need to grow a pair and stick to their guns instead of oo'ing and ah'ing about it!

Road cars, thats why most of them are in it. F1 provides excellent marketing for road cars.

I'm not sure how separate Scuderia Ferrari is from the rest of Ferrari though, or Ferrari from the rest of fiat. I'm guessing the former not very much, and the latter considerably.

Scuderia Ferrari is how Ferrari advertises their cars. It's cheaper than television ads and they get a global audience they'd never be able to reach with an ad agency.

Yes, and more importantly prestige, which is their main reason for not wanting the new engines whereas Renault do. It'll benefit Renault to be able to show a car that still packs a punch despite traditionally moderate numbers, Ferrari customers don't want that. They want to look big and cool and not have a compromise.

Although, traditionally Ferrari compete for purely racing purposes, the road cars are there as a supplement, rather than the other way around (f1 is marketing for their road cars), it'll depend on how powerful the Scuderia section is in comparable to the whole.

But I guess Ferrari's racing staff aren't too bothered, might even like to cut costs somewhat. Whereas their roadcar people are bothered, and kicking up the fuss.