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[toothe]

yeah. renault and mcalren both get docked points it sorted. might as well bet now why the odds are still high.

[AngelesoinsectoS]

Sick world we live in, s*** went out of hand this season and even now, when it´s through. This may definately pave the way for Alonso to choose RB. In Spain we all agree this will be his 2008 team... and a red seat for 2009!

[toothe]

yeah, i can see alonso going ferrari in 2009. shame really because with hamilton + another at mclaren and raik at ferrari and alonso at renault could be a three horse race. Its gone on for years so why so much action all of a sudden. it sucks i agree.

[texasmr2]

I pray to the god's above that Ferrari never let FA in their stable.

[onelapdown]

It's such balls. Industrial espionage in F1 has been going on for decades in one form or another, and it's perfectly legal and common practice for F1 teams to hire photographers to get pictures of their rivals' new parts. Has anyone asked the question as to how Ferrari found out about Renault's mass damper system? I think it's like doping in athletics - a certain amount of this is inevitable.

[toothe]

yeah ofc.

i think that with the money involved now, teams are sponsored by big companies, renault, mercades, vodaphone etc, they want to get there lawyers invlovled all the time. lol recon we will see a pepsi ferrari and a coca cola williams. can you imagine the legal issues they would fight.


end of the day its happening in all sports. money is just toobig.

[AngelesoinsectoS]

yeah, i can see alonso going ferrari in 2009. shame really because with hamilton + another at mclaren and raik at ferrari and alonso at renault could be a three horse race. Its gone on for years so why so much action all of a sudden. it sucks i agree.

100% true... nowadays this sport is so uneven... I read somewhere that the driving skills are just like 15% relevant, and engineering do the rest.

[racechick]

It's such balls. Industrial espionage in F1 has been going on for decades in one form or another, and it's perfectly legal and common practice for F1 teams to hire photographers to get pictures of their rivals' new parts. Has anyone asked the question as to how Ferrari found out about Renault's mass damper system? I think it's like doping in athletics - a certain amount of this is inevitable.

Absolutely! Ive been saying that for ages.
Mosely wanted Ferrari to win tho and he had the vendetta against Ron. Lets just see if he plays fair and punishes in accordance with the crime. (Crime in Moselys eyes, as had been said many times, this goes on!) They have now set a precident, they either punish equally or recind McLarens punishment. And yes what about Toyota!! The whole thing stinks big time

[raithrover]

If the information Renault had is worse than McLaren were fined for, then there can be no place for the FIA to hide. Despite my dislike of their interventions, they set the standard this year and must follow suit, otherwise McLaren will be asking questions and rightly so.

[McLaren Fan]

If the information Renault had is worse than McLaren were fined for, then there can be no place for the FIA to hide. Despite my dislike of their interventions, they set the standard this year and must follow suit, otherwise McLaren will be asking questions and rightly so.

Absolutely. Assuming Renault are guilty, if they don't punish them at least in the same way McLaren were, it will only give provide further evidence to the FIA's agenda.

I think the precedent the FIA are establishing is very dangerous. This has been happening ever since the sport starting. For example, look at Ferrari's rise to dominance: Schumacher basically recruited Benetton's best staff. How much information did, say, Ross Brawn or Rory Byrne bring to Ferrari in 1996? You cannot erase a person's memory so some levels of 'spying' are inevitable. In this case the ex-McLaren employee brought some optical media. Is that significant? Not really. He would have had an idea in his head so it wouldn't have been too long to draw up a similar design for Renault.

[7UpJordan]

lol recon we will see a pepsi ferrari and a coca cola williams.

Or if Jordan returns, we'll see a return of "you know what"...

[Ron Dennis]

yeah, i can see alonso going ferrari in 2009. shame really because with hamilton + another at mclaren and raik at ferrari and alonso at renault could be a three horse race. Its gone on for years so why so much action all of a sudden. it sucks i agree.

100% true... nowadays this sport is so uneven... I read somewhere that the driving skills are just like 15% relevant, and engineering do the rest.

which is bullsh_t of course!

[manbearpig]

It's such balls. Industrial espionage in F1 has been going on for decades in one form or another, and it's perfectly legal and common practice for F1 teams to hire photographers to get pictures of their rivals' new parts. Has anyone asked the question as to how Ferrari found out about Renault's mass damper system? I think it's like doping in athletics - a certain amount of this is inevitable.

Absolutely! Ive been saying that for ages.
Mosely wanted Ferrari to win tho and he had the vendetta against Ron. Lets just see if he plays fair and punishes in accordance with the crime. (Crime in Moselys eyes, as had been said many times, this goes on!) They have now set a precident, they either punish equally or recind McLarens punishment. And yes what about Toyota!! The whole thing stinks big time

• Uhh.... So tell me about all these occasion where an opposing team has been caught with another teams entire data file , or their " Bible " as John Watson put it ? Hmm ? Must be lots of cases , I'm sure you'll fill us in .

[darwin dali]

Yeah, happens all the time. And Kinko in southeast England makes a living of it...

[bud]

a team member had the bible not the team, on the other hand with the Renault and Toyota cases there is hard evidence that the two teams actually used data from another team.
the FIA never had proof McLaren used Ferrari data on the MP4-22 and time will tell if any data was used in the design of the 23.