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[Robert12010]

its quite clear that massa is a number 2 driver and probaly will be next season

[What's Burning?]

Massa was below avarage.
They probably told him so in meetings and so on... no need to say it like that to the press. Is it a way of putting pressure on him to perform? or quite likely they weren't happy at how he managed the issue in Germany.........

We're in agreement here, and you touch on a very interesting point I hadn't even considered that Ferrari may have been upset at how he handled Germany.

This would have been all well an good in the team or in an inner circle environment, but to say this publicly has only one intent and that is to use shame and humiliation as a form of motivation.

[What's Burning?]

Felipe may disagree.

Only Felipe can really answer that, and he is on record multiple times on that count. Also, IMO he wouldn't be at Ferrari if he thought for a moment he was a #2.

Understanding Ferrari's modus operandi will lead to the inevitable conclusion that they would not favour a driver, they always place the team first.

NOW IGET IT!

Ferrari is first.

Alonso is second.

Massa is third!

No wonder you've always been claiming that Massa is not the number 2 driver.

[vaptin]

To be honest, Massa's performance this year (including before Germany) warranted him being made a number 2 driver. Ferrari could've been harsher with him, thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

Massa isn't a pay driver, so Ferrari aren't going to keep supporting him for the dosh, he can either preform or get made a number 2 or get out.

[What's Burning?]

reading through the thread...

F1ea quoting F1er quoting F1ea quoting F1er... confusing.

[bud]

thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

I don't think Renault would have allowed that.

[vaptin]

thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

I don't think Renault would have allowed that.

He only signed a 1 year contract I think for 2010? (he has a new one now), so Ferrari could've brought him in for 2011.

[bud]

thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

I don't think Renault would have allowed that.

He only signed a 1 year contract I think for 2010? (he has a new one now), so Ferrari could've brought him in for 2011.

I thought you meant mid season for some reason.

[Robert12010]

i think that lotus renault will want keep kubica there mind, but i think that kubica could drive for ferrari and be a poular choice too

[billindenver]

The unemotional facts are that Ferrari tried to keep Massa out front in Germany, but he could not match the pace of the two cars behind him. Also, without question, if Massa were faster than Alonso....he would be enjoying the number one position within the team. There is no way Ferrari would favor the lessor of their drivers. Their somewhat fanatical fans would flip out. Massa was slow this year, and his childlike handling of Germany should have cost him his job. He handled it like an unprofessional child and cost his team a bunch of money and bad press. I can't blame a Ferrari boss if he is pissed at him for it. They spent a lot of radio time during Germany begging him to speed up...he was incapable. Nobody's fault but his own.

[vaptin]

thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

I don't think Renault would have allowed that.

He only signed a 1 year contract I think for 2010? (he has a new one now), so Ferrari could've brought him in for 2011.

I thought you meant mid season for some reason.

I wasn't clear, I just meant in principle rather than practicality, Kubica just seems like the most obvious choice for Ferrari's next new race driver to me.

[texasmr2]

I mentioned on several occasions that I would like to see Kubica at Ferrari but I believe Renault finally realize they have a great driver. Hopefully Massa can find more speed this next season yet only time will tell.

[Hexagram]

I mentioned on several occasions that I would like to see Kubica at Ferrari but I believe Renault finally realize they have a great driver. Hopefully Massa can find more speed this next season yet only time will tell.

He is going to have to find a lot of speed to beat Alonso. He was already moaning about the tyres at the Pirelli test when Alonso was impressed with them. Not a good start!

At least it appears he will get equal treatment for the first half of the season anyway.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo says his two drivers will start the 2011 season on equal terms, ruling out the possibility of imposing team orders early on.

Brazilian Felipe Massa was controversially ordered to let team-mate Fernando Alonso through to win the German Grand Prix last year, a decision that cost the team a $100,000 fine.

The ban on team orders has now been removed from the sport and so teams are expected to be able to give orders to their drivers freely.

Di Montezemolo, however, believes it is important that both drivers start on equal footing, and only later in the season team orders will be used if necessary.

"If I think one of my drivers is not in the condition to win the championship, I will change them. I want two drivers in a condition to win," di Montezemolo told reporters during a media lunch on Thursday.

"I don't want to have a person that is frustrated from the first race because he knows he has less power. Also, the races are too unpredictable.

"What is important is to have a clear understanding between the two drivers in case and when it might be a necessity.

"For sure in the second half of the season we have to be prepared in a very open way, but in the first part of the season it is in the interest of the team to put both drivers in the best situation."

The Italian also made it clear he still believed this year's decision at Germany was the right one.

"In the first race of course it's ridiculous, even in the third. At Hockenheim it was very clear, more than before, because Felipe was not as quick," he said.

He conceded, however, that the 2002 Austrian GP call, when the team ordered Rubens Barrichello to let Michael Schumacher win the race, was an error.

"For me it was a mistake because it was too early in the season maybe, but it was our spirit in terms of the team - we win together and lose together," he added.

[f1ea]

I doubt Felipe was racing his a@@ out. No point in doing that really. Even if it was only subconsciously. He could see how the land lay.

Impossible. Why woul Felipe hurt his own career, image, credibility.... by not being able to match his teamate. on the contrary, EVERYONE knew Ferrari would favour Alonso (due to the points situation) if some situation arose, but the worst Massa could do was not give it his all and at least show he could match and be up there.

I think he simply couldnt deal with this car. And it was not for lack of trying or the team not helping him. Shumacher couldnt deal with his car either, and Button couldnt get good Q pace on his... would you say these drivers all went to bed?

reading through the thread...

F1ea quoting F1er quoting F1ea quoting F1er... confusing.

Mine's are the posts that make sense

Also, without question, if Massa were faster than Alonso....he would be enjoying the number one position within the team. There is no way Ferrari would favor the lessor of their drivers.

Its very simple actually. No big issue about it. In fact, being the #1 driver could simply mean getting extra Magnums in your pit cooler.

[FRAFPDD]

thrown him out of the team and brought in Kubica.

I don't think Renault would have allowed that.

He only signed a 1 year contract I think for 2010? (he has a new one now), so Ferrari could've brought him in for 2011.

Why does everyone seem to think Kubica at Ferrari is jsut a given that Kubi will just run to his Ferrari masters whistle at the first call?

Kubica has a team built around him on the rise, and Kubica is aware more then any viewer about teh current politics at Ferrari, i wouldnt bank on it.