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[bud]

His point is he has a Lewis obsession

[Hammer278]

I've just gone into 2 threads, and both have 1 thing in common...texan guy bringing up Lewis and trying his hardest to turn both into a Lewis thread.

The love is strong in that one. And I thought I was a fan!!

[Jabberwocky]

Lets stay on topic then shall we!!

I like how Todt works, he has basically said "You can give team orders in clear speech only, so that way you will have to deal with your fans and PR issues"

Mixture 13, Fuel Map 8, Driver map 4

[vaptin]

They were banned yes, but the FIA 'turned a blind eye' as Ive said before, so long as it was at the season close. This precedent was set when Massa let Kimi through in 2007. Had he not done this Lewis would have won the championship in his rookie year. Do i have a problrm with this? No. Even though it robbed Lewis. Massa was out ,so helping Kimi at the end of the season was fine. FIA are obviosly happy with this and have said so....despite banned team orders that manipulate results. Why do you find this distinction so difficult to understand? Screwing a team mate in favour of a prima donna, as opposed to helping a team mate when you yourself can no longer win.

That's my problem, and looks like Todt doesn't like it either, surely you agree that's not how rules (regulations if you like) should work? When push comes to a shove, and the FIA want to punish a team for team orders, when pointed out they turned a blind eye before just destroys their case unless they go back and enforce those "blind eye" incidents.

[racechick]

They were banned yes, but the FIA 'turned a blind eye' as Ive said before, so long as it was at the season close. This precedent was set when Massa let Kimi through in 2007. Had he not done this Lewis would have won the championship in his rookie year. Do i have a problrm with this? No. Even though it robbed Lewis. Massa was out ,so helping Kimi at the end of the season was fine. FIA are obviosly happy with this and have said so....despite banned team orders that manipulate results. Why do you find this distinction so difficult to understand? Screwing a team mate in favour of a prima donna, as opposed to helping a team mate when you yourself can no longer win.

That's my problem, and looks like Todt doesn't like it either, surely you agree that's not how rules (regulations if you like) should work? When push comes to a shove, and the FIA want to punish a team for team orders, when pointed out they turned a blind eye before just destroys their case unless they go back and enforce those "blind eye" incidents.

Yes I agree with you on this. Turning a blind eye is not the answer(though I undestand the FIA's thinking). It needs clarification.

For me, the rules on team orders (with all the legal jargon inserted) would go something like this...... No team orders are allowed that disadavantage one of the drivers in a team. The drivers must be free to race and compete for the championship until they cannot mathmatically win. Once a driver can no longer win the championship he may be asked to help his team mate win.

This I believe is the system the FIA were following, but it isnt satisfactory that its not correctly written in the rules.

[Mr.Conte]

Todt plays the political thing more than he works for the FIA.
My guess is that his crack is smoking from too much "touch your toes, here it goes" stuff..

[spankyham]

Todt is setting things up for an intelligent review of the whole team orders issue. I see this as another case of him demonstrating what a good job he is doing as FiA President.

Bernie to Max - Jean is smarter than you, repeat Jean is smarter than you - can you confirm you understood that message?

[Jabberwocky]

At the moment I don't get the feeling that JT@FIA is underhanded

[billindenver]

I think Todt is doing fine thusfar. He is following a moron, and all eyes are on him....not to mention the hatred of the anti-red crowd who will criticize and attempt to slant any move he makes. He is, at least, far better than his predecessor.

As to the team orders. It's a team sport. Massa was never really in the hunt. Ferrari knew who their title hopes rested on and they made a team decision. They were right in suspecting that Massa would trail far astern of any title hopes. Had they been wrong, I could see a reason to complain about the Germany swap. As it is, they were right so as a team they made the right call. Barricello made a big deal of it when he was asked to move...and he has been driving for inferior teams ever since. Is suspect that Massa will soon follow the same path. Massa and his radio boy made the swap into such a fiasco. They should pay for their team disloyalty.

Having team orders at one point in the year and not in the others is stupid. The teams will still tell a driver prior to the race to do whatever they want him to do. His job will still be in jeopardy if he disobeys. Whether or not the call goes over the radio is beside the point in my mind....team orders will exist as long as there are teams in the sport. Want them gone? Get rid of the second cars and forbid inter-team ownership....which I don't believe is a bad idea at all, provided other competitors can be found.

[racechick]

I think Todt is doing fine thusfar. He is following a moron, and all eyes are on him....not to mention the hatred of the anti-red crowd who will criticize and attempt to slant any move he makes. He is, at least, far better than his predecessor.

As to the team orders. It's a team sport. Massa was never really in the hunt. Ferrari knew who their title hopes rested on and they made a team decision. They were right in suspecting that Massa would trail far astern of any title hopes. Had they been wrong, I could see a reason to complain about the Germany swap. As it is, they were right so as a team they made the right call. Barricello made a big deal of it when he was asked to move...and he has been driving for inferior teams ever since. Is suspect that Massa will soon follow the same path. Massa and his radio boy made the swap into such a fiasco. They should pay for their team disloyalty.

Having team orders at one point in the year and not in the others is stupid. The teams will still tell a driver prior to the race to do whatever they want him to do. His job will still be in jeopardy if he disobeys. Whether or not the call goes over the radio is beside the point in my mind....team orders will exist as long as there are teams in the sport. Want them gone? Get rid of the second cars and forbid inter-team ownership....which I don't believe is a bad idea at all, provided other competitors can be found.

I agree with some of your points, disagree with others. Here we go:-

-Yes Thus far Todt does a good job, Im pleasantly surprised.

-'Haterd of red army crowd' there you go letting emotion get the better of you. I'm not a no.1 Ferrari fan, but thats because of their actions and not becuase they are Ferari per se. As I said, full marks to Todt sofar whatever colour team he was bred in.

-Team orders. Yes its a team sport, for which we have the WCC. Its also an individual sport, for which we have the WDC

-Massa.Never in the hunt???? He was in the hunt against a 7times world champion. He was in the hunt against Kimi. He was in the hunt this year until his team threw him on the scrap heap, suprisingly his motivation, confidence and self belief took a dive then and so did his results.

-Team orders through the year. Cant agree a last race swap with a driver who is out, is anything LIKE dumping a driver mid season who is still in the race.

-Last point, yes agreed.One driver per teem would sort this out.

[billindenver]

-'Haterd of red army crowd' there you go letting emotion get the better of you. I'm not a no.1 Ferrari fan, but thats because of their actions and not becuase they are Ferari per se. As I said, full marks to Todt sofar whatever colour team he was bred in.

Emotion getting the better of me? RC darlin, I wasn't quoting you when I gave my opinion. I neither referred to you nor insinuated that you were part of the anti red crowd. And yet...you are defending your position as if it's been assaulted. I think the emotion of the world versus red has gotten the better of you, not me....The lady doth protest too much.

I couldn't care less about Ferrari. I like F1 and I think Todt is doing a good job despite the red hatred army trying to spin anything he does, or may do, or may have considered doing into a Ferrari conspiracy. In my post I didn't say you were part of that group. But if you are, then you are....again...I couldn't care less.

I cheered for anyone who could beat Shuey during the domination years....and while I liked Kimi, I think Massa is a whining baby even more than Alonso and Hamilton. So, I'm still no Ferrari fan....other than to say whatever they do that sends the McLaren minions into mass hysteria typically has some entertainment value.

As to Massa folding like a cheap deck of cards after getting second place in Germany. If such an event crushes the skills, psyche, confidence etc of a professional racing driver making millions each year...then that driver needs to be retired immediately. His team sent him into a pit lane with the fuel hose still attached not so long ago....costing him a championship....did that do permanent damage to him too? Perhaps they should find the whining baby a pacifier to suck on? He was far off the pace this year. That's his own fault. The team did everything they could in Germany to get him to even come close to matching his teammate's pace before moving him aside.....he couldn't do it. It's his own fault. If the team was so intent on screwing him into a number two driver position.....tell me, why didn't they make him move over sooner and have his lack of pace slow down those behind him while Alonso rocketed off into the distance? Instead they spent most of the race trying, pleading, begging him to get a gap and hold it. Why would they do that? I'll tell you why....they were giving him a fair chance to prove himself....and he failed. He's never been Alonso's equal and he certainly isn't now. Unfortunate....but true.

You and others made plenty of fun of Red Bull when their drivers took each other out not long before Germany. Ferrari is a better managed team and decided not to allow such a fiasco by putting the faster driver up front. I don't hold that against them any more than I held it against McLaren when they did it, Mercedes when they did it...or any other team who has done the same. You simply don't let two cars worth millions scrap it out if it's clear which is faster. Not unless you like having the press and fans the world over laugh at you.

[racechick]

Didnt pay off, Red Bull won (that was the short answer)

[vaptin]

Didnt pay off, Red Bull won (that was the short answer)

By that loigc you could argue Mclaren's driver strategy didn't pay off, as they didn't win either.

Or even Redbull were right to give him Mark's wing in Silverstone, cos he won it in the end

[bud]

Didnt pay off, Red Bull won (that was the short answer)

By that loigc you could argue Mclaren's driver strategy didn't pay off, as they didn't win either.

Or even Redbull were right to give him Mark's wing in Silverstone, cos he won it in the end

is every answer you give just to turn a comment on its head?

[vaptin]

Didnt pay off, Red Bull won (that was the short answer)

By that loigc you could argue Mclaren's driver strategy didn't pay off, as they didn't win either.

Or even Redbull were right to give him Mark's wing in Silverstone, cos he won it in the end

is every answer you give just to turn a comment on its head?

It's a good way of testing if its watertight