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[texasmr2]

mmm... Tex 31 years ago there were no Tilke F1 circuits so I'm missing your point.

Well I can see that I'm only so please let the whining continue .

[texasmr2]

Let me add that I can respect the views voiced here yet that does not mean I have too agree with them .

[kerc]

Let me add that I can respect the views voiced here yet that does not mean I have too agree with them .

I know.

[What's Burning?]

Seriously, loved that post, Kai.

I'm a full-time software developer, but my real passion is design, in any medium. Giugiaro, Van Der Rohe, Rams, Rand...Love 'em all. At least for me, your post makes a lot of sense. There's a certain coldness to computer design that only the real masters can override and let genius shine through.

You're referencing some of my favorite designers, so we're in agreement on aesthetics but I disagree with your statement that there's a coldness to computer design. I see it as merely a tool to execute instead of a tool to create, and that's where reliance solely the computer can squash some of the creative through process so don't blame the tool blame the designer.

There's a reason why Newey sketches his cars first and perhaps that's the reason why the CAD only Virgins look like the side of a barn compared to the Red Bulls.

Someone like Karim Rashid uses a computer to design, yet the artistry isn't bridled by the tool.

[kerc]

Seriously, loved that post, Kai.

I'm a full-time software developer, but my real passion is design, in any medium. Giugiaro, Van Der Rohe, Rams, Rand...Love 'em all. At least for me, your post makes a lot of sense. There's a certain coldness to computer design that only the real masters can override and let genius shine through.

You're referencing some of my favorite designers, so we're in agreement on aesthetics but I disagree with your statement that there's a coldness to computer design. I see it as merely a tool to execute instead of a tool to create, and that's where reliance solely the computer can squash some of the creative through process so don't blame the tool blame the designer.

There's a reason why Newey sketches his cars first and perhaps that's the reason why the CAD only Virgins look like the side of a barn compared to the Red Bulls.

Someone like Karim Rashid uses a computer to design, yet the artistry isn't bridled by the tool.

That's why I stated that the real geniuses go beyond the computer. I think pure computer design brings a certain laziness, whereas when you design with pencil and paper, you have a better feel for the correct line to take.

Rashid is awesome.

[What's Burning?]

Let me add that I can respect the views voiced here yet that does not mean I have too agree with them .

I think Kai's comparison was of the old circuits to the new circuits (Tilke designs) so I didn't understand your point and I wanted you to clarify a bit. Opinions keep the forum churning right? But your explanation that since you have a deeper love of F1 than someone that's been a fan only a handful of years is an emotional response not a subjective answer.

I will tell you that being a 31 year fan of F1 certainly gives you a deeper knowledge base and a richer perspective of the sport, but in no way a deeper love of the sport than a teenage kids watching it for only a year and falling in love it it. That's not a fair comparison for you to make.

[darwin dali]

Let me add that I can respect the views voiced here yet that does not mean I have too agree with them .

I think Kai's comparison was of the old circuits to the new circuits (Tilke designs) so I didn't understand your point and I wanted you to clarify a bit. Opinions keep the forum churning right? But your explanation that since you have a deeper love of F1 than someone that's been a fan only a handful of years is an emotional response not a subjective answer.

I will tell you that being a 31 year fan of F1 certainly gives you a deeper knowledge base and a richer perspective of the sport, but in no way a deeper love of the sport than a teenage kids watching it for only a year and falling in love it it. That's not a fair comparison for you to make.

On the OTHER hand, I take an experienced, skillful lover anytime over a young dabbler who doesn't know the front from the back

[What's Burning?]

Don't beat around the bush, just say it... you like Tex's old rawhide more than my boyish good looks.

[texasmr2]

I'm getting abit 'randy' have we gone off topic ?

[kerc]

[darwin dali]

Don't beat around the bush, just say it... you like Tex's old rawhide more than my boyish good looks.

Tough call since you're both experienced. How about a compromise? BOGO?

[stonemonkey]

@stonemonkey

with the logotype i didn't mean the tracks should look like prancing horse for example, but that they should have the substantial features of a good logotype (recognition value, distinctive style, coherency). You have to admit that silhouettes of some of the greatest tracks like Nurburgring, Suzuka, Monza have become icons.

I know what you mean, I'd also put Spa in there but perhaps not circuits like Albert Park and Montreal. On the other hand, there's Malaysia which has an instantly recognisable outline as well as China which I believe was derived from or is a Chinese symbol.

[racechick]

Let me add that I can respect the views voiced here yet that does not mean I have too agree with them .

I think Kai's comparison was of the old circuits to the new circuits (Tilke designs) so I didn't understand your point and I wanted you to clarify a bit. Opinions keep the forum churning right? But your explanation that since you have a deeper love of F1 than someone that's been a fan only a handful of years is an emotional response not a subjective answer.

I will tell you that being a 31 year fan of F1 certainly gives you a deeper knowledge base and a richer perspective of the sport, but in no way a deeper love of the sport than a teenage kids watching it for only a year and falling in love it it. That's not a fair comparison for you to make.

On the OTHER hand, I take an experienced, skillful lover anytime over a young dabbler who doesn't know the front from the back

On the other hand, the 'young dabbler' may get just as much enjoyment from the experience as the 'skilful lover'

[Kai FT]

Glad to hear my topic can evoke such feelings in you guys, but I didn't know that kind of thing is legal down there in texas. I thought they burn George Micheal CD's on a daily basis there.

Anway, yes some of the new tracks aren't that bad, but they just don't come close to classic ones. Overtaking is often better, but it just feels a bit forced, and thats because it is. They lack the kind of rythm that makes the greatest tracks so enjoyable to drive. I think it's because Tilke tries to force every type of corner into the layout. That is why drivers complain all of the Tilke tracks have the same feel. They just lack a distinctive character. Monza is high-speed, Suzuka is sweeping and Monaco is stop & go. All those types of tracks can be great if they are executed well, coherent and don't try to pretend they are something else as well. I give you Hockenheim as an example how take away character by adding different elements.

With Austin it is quite similar. It's basically a meshup of existing corners and as a wannabe artist i just don't think thats quite right. I don't know if you guys wanted to hang a picture of Picasso, Dali and Rafael blended into a single piece in your livingroom. On the other hand it may be good to drive at and provide a great spectacle. But i would expect it to evoke a bit nostalgia when driving through. It may even get confusing as you might wonder for a split-second where the hell you really are. But why not create new challanges instead of reviving old ones. And maybe i'm just wrong and the one who is forcing things by interpreting F1 in a way that has nothing to do with it...

[nish2280]

Glad to hear my topic can evoke such feelings in you guys, but I didn't know that kind of thing is legal down there in texas. I thought they burn George Micheal CD's on a daily basis there.

Anway, yes some of the new tracks aren't that bad, but they just don't come close to classic ones. Overtaking is often better, but it just feels a bit forced, and thats because it is. They lack the kind of rythm that makes the greatest tracks so enjoyable to drive. I think it's because Tilke tries to force every type of corner into the layout. That is why drivers complain all of the Tilke tracks have the same feel. They just lack a distinctive character. Monza is high-speed, Suzuka is sweeping and Monaco is stop & go. All those types of tracks can be great if they are executed well, coherent and don't try to pretend they are something else as well. I give you Hockenheim as an example how take away character by adding different elements.

With Austin it is quite similar. It's basically a meshup of existing corners and as a wannabe artist i just don't think thats quite right. I don't know if you guys wanted to hang a picture of Picasso, Dali and Rafael blended into a single piece in your livingroom. On the other hand it may be good to drive at and provide a great spectacle. But i would expect it to evoke a bit nostalgia when driving through. It may even get confusing as you might wonder for a split-second where the hell you really are. But why not create new challanges instead of reviving old ones. And maybe i'm just wrong and the one who is forcing things by interpreting F1 in a way that has nothing to do with it...

I would say street tracks constrict the design as the designer must do with what is given to him, hence the multiple 90 degree turns and hundreds of chicanes we see in the modern street tracks.

Modern is in bold so as to not create tension and for someone to come along and say that im wrong because Monaco is not just 90 degree turns and chicanes.