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[f1ea]

The reason this doesn't ring true is the timing. 2011 is not the best year for Massa to leave Ferrari, because he wouldn't be able to see how he does against Alonso on the Pirellis. Better to try it in 2011 and move after that if he still isn't happy. For all we know Massa will love the Pirellis and run rings around Alonso.

It probably wouldnt be the same situation he had with Kimi, because as Alonso has shown he's a hard worker and will work around struggles to still be reasonably competitive. But Massa is definitely no slug. He is very fast. Only problem with him is that he's very inconsistent.

For example, Alonso has made mistakes this yr but his pace has been very consistent. In all the races he's DNFd he had the pace and in the races he was slower than Massa he was within reasonable pace. In Turkey, Massa was faster. Period. And some other tracks as well. That's ok. But if Massa wants to fight with guys like Alonso, he needs to be consistent. It doesnt help him if he matches him on one race, and on the others is racing for P4 or 5 while Alonso is fighting for the win.

Kubica is better than Massa. No doubt.

[Hansy]

why would you say massa's talent dosn't match his ambition?? he was one point away from the WDC, are you crazy? he was out of a seat thanks to a horrific accident and came back in fighting, he came 2nd and out qualified Alonso in his first race back ? he lead the championship at one point, he basically won in germany and while he has had bad moments this year he is more than capable of fighting for a championship.

doesn't have the talent lol, please.

the last thing i would ever want to see is kubica at ferrari while alonso is there, it would if not ruin is career put it on hold for a few years i think renault is a very solid seat for him if not Mercedes. always rated kubica don't know why is only being talked about like this now and its a surprise hes been overlooked . i would like him at redbull

Im not sure Alonso would be able to walk all over Kubica. I think he'd meet his match. Can you see Kubica pulling over for his lordship? Lewis will always be my favourits but in the right car i think Kubica could be next best. But I think Massa`gets underated because he's nice. If things were equal at Ferari Massa wouldnt be that far back.

If things were equal?
Does massa get different parts for his car?
Does he get old fuel?
What you are seeing is both of them in EQUAL CARS, that's why the better driver is showing himself dramatically.
When Massa had a shot at the WDC, Alonso was driving a slug.
I'd hate to see what Alonso would do to Vettel if both of them were in RB6s.
I like Massa and hope that he stays at Ferrari for another season.
Kubica is a good driver but not in the Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel level of driving.
Throw Massa and Webberl a half click below that, then stuff Kubica below them.

Did you seriously suggest Massa is any better than Kubica? Wow. I guess Kovalainen is better than Kubica as well. He's been at McLaren, after all... De La Rosa, too. And Fisichella. And Badoer.

I firmly believe that in equal cars, Massa will win out over Kubica.
Tell me, who has more fastest laps this year?
Last year Masa was handing kubica his lunch until he got hit in the face with a spring.
Massa changing teams makes no sense as he is with Ferrari and that is the goal of every F1 driver today.

I believe that's pretty much impossible, as Massa is having trouble to keep up with Kubica in a far superior car. You saw him being pwned yesterday, Buemi gave 10x more of a challenge to Kubica than Massa.

The only drivers that could beat Kubica fair and square in equal cars are Hamilton and Alonso, and I'm not sure about the latter. And pretty much half the grid could do better than Massa currently does. They just aren't going to be handed such an opportunity in a golden plate.

And, well, Kubica has one fastest lap this season. Massa has none. Why did you bring that up? lol

Check again.
Massa has produced a number of fastest laps in a number of races.

Alonso got fastest lap on Bahrain, Silverstone, Monza and Singapore. Vettel on Monaco, Hockenheim and Hungary. Hamilton on Shanghai, Barcelona and Spa. Webber on Melbourne and Sepang. Button on Valencia. Kubica on Montreal. And Petrov on Istanbul.

I don't see Massa's name. But would it matter if he had? Is Petrov better than Massa because he did a fastest lap? No, they both suffer from the same problem: utter lack of consistence.

Just to be sure, you aren't trolling, are you?

[Mr.Conte]

why would you say massa's talent dosn't match his ambition?? he was one point away from the WDC, are you crazy? he was out of a seat thanks to a horrific accident and came back in fighting, he came 2nd and out qualified Alonso in his first race back ? he lead the championship at one point, he basically won in germany and while he has had bad moments this year he is more than capable of fighting for a championship.

doesn't have the talent lol, please.

the last thing i would ever want to see is kubica at ferrari while alonso is there, it would if not ruin is career put it on hold for a few years i think renault is a very solid seat for him if not Mercedes. always rated kubica don't know why is only being talked about like this now and its a surprise hes been overlooked . i would like him at redbull

Im not sure Alonso would be able to walk all over Kubica. I think he'd meet his match. Can you see Kubica pulling over for his lordship? Lewis will always be my favourits but in the right car i think Kubica could be next best. But I think Massa`gets underated because he's nice. If things were equal at Ferari Massa wouldnt be that far back.

If things were equal?
Does massa get different parts for his car?
Does he get old fuel?
What you are seeing is both of them in EQUAL CARS, that's why the better driver is showing himself dramatically.
When Massa had a shot at the WDC, Alonso was driving a slug.
I'd hate to see what Alonso would do to Vettel if both of them were in RB6s.
I like Massa and hope that he stays at Ferrari for another season.
Kubica is a good driver but not in the Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel level of driving.
Throw Massa and Webberl a half click below that, then stuff Kubica below them.

Did you seriously suggest Massa is any better than Kubica? Wow. I guess Kovalainen is better than Kubica as well. He's been at McLaren, after all... De La Rosa, too. And Fisichella. And Badoer.

I firmly believe that in equal cars, Massa will win out over Kubica.
Tell me, who has more fastest laps this year?
Last year Masa was handing kubica his lunch until he got hit in the face with a spring.
Massa changing teams makes no sense as he is with Ferrari and that is the goal of every F1 driver today.

I believe that's pretty much impossible, as Massa is having trouble to keep up with Kubica in a far superior car. You saw him being pwned yesterday, Buemi gave 10x more of a challenge to Kubica than Massa.

The only drivers that could beat Kubica fair and square in equal cars are Hamilton and Alonso, and I'm not sure about the latter. And pretty much half the grid could do better than Massa currently does. They just aren't going to be handed such an opportunity in a golden plate.

And, well, Kubica has one fastest lap this season. Massa has none. Why did you bring that up? lol

Check again.
Massa has produced a number of fastest laps in a number of races.

Alonso got fastest lap on Bahrain, Silverstone, Monza and Singapore. Vettel on Monaco, Hockenheim and Hungary. Hamilton on Shanghai, Barcelona and Spa. Webber on Melbourne and Sepang. Button on Valencia. Kubica on Montreal. And Petrov on Istanbul.

I don't see Massa's name. But would it matter if he had? Is Petrov better than Massa because he did a fastest lap? No, they both suffer from the same problem: utter lack of consistence.

Just to be sure, you aren't trolling, are you?

You do not understand and I should clarify further.
During a number of races, Massa did at various times produce fastest laps.
True, he did not end up with the "fastest" lap of the race but, he did produce fastest laps during the race; something that Kubica has not done.
Kubica is a good driver and capable of winning races but, for this year, he has not stood out and dominated in qualification.
If Ferrari felt that he was a needed piece of the puzzle for them, he would be on the team, which he is not and will not for at least another season.

[Hansy]

I feel it's pointless to argue any further, if you think Kubica hasn't stood out, we haven't watched the same races this season. He is so far the best driver of the season by a large distance. And he won't go to Ferrari, because Alonso would cry and whine. And they won't want that.

[vaptin]

I feel it's pointless to argue any further, if you think Kubica hasn't stood out, we haven't watched the same races this season. He is so far the best driver of the season by a large distance. And he won't go to Ferrari, because Alonso would cry and whine. And they won't want that.

Alonso's only really whined when his team mate is in front of him but is slower (not been coping with bad luck well though), if Kubica goes there and beats Alonso Ferrari simply have to choose him over Alonso. Alonso needs Ferrari more than they need him, and I think after spending 2 years in a uninspiring Renault, he's realised that.

[Hansy]

I feel it's pointless to argue any further, if you think Kubica hasn't stood out, we haven't watched the same races this season. He is so far the best driver of the season by a large distance. And he won't go to Ferrari, because Alonso would cry and whine. And they won't want that.

Alonso's only really whined when his team mate is in front of him but is slower (not been coping with bad luck well though), if Kubica goes there and beats Alonso Ferrari simply have to choose him over Alonso. Alonso needs Ferrari more than they need him, and I think after spending 2 years in a uninspiring Renault, he's realised that.

Hamilton -> check.

Oh wait.

[vaptin]

Can Ferrari make it work? It didn't for whatever reason with Alonso Hamilton (perhaps I'm futilely hoping this thread won't go down that route), but there's a chance Kubica + Alonso would be different. Apparently their already friends, presumably Ferrari would make it clear to both drivers where things stand.

[racechick]

Can Ferrari make it work? It didn't for whatever reason with Alonso Hamilton (perhaps I'm futilely hoping this thread won't go down that route), but there's a chance Kubica + Alonso would be different. Apparently their already friends, presumably Ferrari would make it clear to both drivers where things stand.

I would think Kubica's attitude would be much like Kimi's. Get in the car and drive it fast...team mate?? what team mate? Alonso will be fine if he can beat his team mate if he cant ..fireworks,tears and trouble.

[vaptin]

Can Ferrari make it work? It didn't for whatever reason with Alonso Hamilton (perhaps I'm futilely hoping this thread won't go down that route), but there's a chance Kubica + Alonso would be different. Apparently their already friends, presumably Ferrari would make it clear to both drivers where things stand.

I would think Kubica's attitude would be much like Kimi's. Get in the car and drive it fast...team mate?? what team mate? Alonso will be fine if he can beat his team mate if he cant ..fireworks,tears and trouble.

Indeed, but Ferrari won't slow Kubica down for Alonso, after all if he's faster, he's faster and Alonso knows that. I think the main point of contetnion is if their fairly even, in which case Alonso will start trying to get the "edge" and the team to favour him for the WDC, if Ferrari can successfully negotiate that to a point where both drivers agree (ie, we'll use no "team orders", or if one is starting to drop from the title hunt he won't be backed any longer) they'll be ok. And it seems fairly clear that when discussing terms with Kubica, he'll want to know, (and so will Ferrari) where things will stand with him and Alonso.

I reckon it might work out like the Massa/Kimi relationship (both on equal footing at the start, team backs one later as necessary, driver behind gets to try next year).

[racechick]

Can Ferrari make it work? It didn't for whatever reason with Alonso Hamilton (perhaps I'm futilely hoping this thread won't go down that route), but there's a chance Kubica + Alonso would be different. Apparently their already friends, presumably Ferrari would make it clear to both drivers where things stand.

I would think Kubica's attitude would be much like Kimi's. Get in the car and drive it fast...team mate?? what team mate? Alonso will be fine if he can beat his team mate if he cant ..fireworks,tears and trouble.

Indeed, but Ferrari won't slow Kubica down for Alonso, after all if he's faster, he's faster and Alonso knows that. I think the main point of contetnion is if their fairly even, in which case Alonso will start trying to get the "edge" and the team to favour him for the WDC, if Ferrari can successfully negotiate that to a point where both drivers agree (ie, we'll use no "team orders", or if one is starting to drop from the title hunt he won't be backed any longer) they'll be ok. And it seems fairly clear that when discussing terms with Kubica, he'll want to know, (and so will Ferrari) where things will stand with him and Alonso.

I reckon it might work out like the Massa/Kimi relationship (both on equal footing at the start, team backs one later as necessary, driver behind gets to try next year).

I dont think Alonso will be able to handle that. He'd agree to it because he will believe he's the one that will be quicker, when/if he isnt , he wont be able to stand it.

[vaptin]

Shurgs, then he'll get dumped by Ferrari and they'll get another driver in (who will still be pretty good probably).