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[nish2280]

All Vettel needs is a bit more maturity, and the eventual World Champion will be right there. Whoever denies that Vettel has the talent to become a champion, or to think that he's not enough for teams like McLaren or Ferrari, well, that person is delusional.

Vettel's been in F1 for four years now, first as a test driver and then as a race driver, taking part in his first race in 2007. That's more than enough time to learn that the fastest way from A to B is not a straight line if there's another car in the way. That's not lack of maturity, that's lack of racecraft and if he hasn't learnt that yet he's not likely to learn it any time soon.

He's undoubtedly fast but he can't race with other cars. Maybe he should go to rallying.

Can't see McLaren picking him up until he understands the basics of driving in a race.

I think this sums up Vettel.

"You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not."
Ayrton Senna

[Jensonb]

Man, Hamilton and Vettel. That's the most dunderheaded pairing I've ever heard. They clash almost as much as Alonso and Hamilton, but Vettel (Unlike Hamilton and Alonso) is not one of the top 3 or 4 drivers. And they're both hyper-aggressive, so you run the risk of multiple double-DNFs

[ivey]

Two young guns in one team doesen't add up a great team in my opinion, right now it's pretty perfect imo. Button a more experienced driver who can keep his cool and while winning races can also co-operate with his teammate. I'd keep him as long as possible because he certainly has many years in him.

[Peng]

No, not plenty. He has had *some* chances to overtake drivers in cars close to speed to RBR and didn't take them.
He crashed twice, not 5 times. Twice it's a bit much, it's not *too much*.
And he did pulled some overtakings in quite a few races (Malaysia at the start, China, Britain) - and during quite a few of the other races he was either 1st or 2nd behind Webber!

Not sure where i said 5 times :p.

But he is a terrible overtaker he just doesn't have the experience and race craft needed to overtake currently, that doesn't make him a bad driver and i wouldn't say he is even close to some of the worst drivers on the grid but i also wouldn't class him in the top 5 maybe even top 10 with some of his performances this season.

The fact is even if the Red Bulls haven't had the insane pace they have in qualifying in the actual races they haven't exactly been slow either and instead of taking the car advantage they have had for most of the season and build a big point lead they have thrown in away due to lack of experience and id say in webber's case just lack of consistency.

Vettel is young give him 5 years and he could have a WDC or 2 under his belt but to me if he wins it this season it will just show the failure of the other teams to catch up and not the outstanding driving by the winner.

Oh, it doesn't matter.

Kubica got horrendously out of shape at Eau Rouge at Spa because of the rain, but he got the car back and squeezed Vettel on the grass keeping him behind.
Also, Vettel passed Kubica in the end at Spa, right?

It wasn't at the end it was near the start and yes that was one of Vettel's best overtakes so far, i forgot about it even though i do remember posting about it after the race and complimenting him on it.
Sadly most of that race was flawed by his 2 collisions so even though he made a great overtake it kind of got blurred by what happened a few laps later.

Also not sure when Kubica got out of shape maybe i missed it, all i remember between Kubica and Vettel was the overtake at the hairpin at i think turn 1.

[nish2280]

No, not plenty. He has had *some* chances to overtake drivers in cars close to speed to RBR and didn't take them.
He crashed twice, not 5 times. Twice it's a bit much, it's not *too much*.
And he did pulled some overtakings in quite a few races (Malaysia at the start, China, Britain) - and during quite a few of the other races he was either 1st or 2nd behind Webber!

Not sure where i said 5 times :p.

But he is a terrible overtaker he just doesn't have the experience and race craft needed to overtake currently, that doesn't make him a bad driver and i wouldn't say he is even close to some of the worst drivers on the grid but i also wouldn't class him in the top 5 maybe even top 10 with some of his performances this season.

The fact is even if the Red Bulls haven't had the insane pace they have in qualifying in the actual races they haven't exactly been slow either and instead of taking the car advantage they have had for most of the season and build a big point lead they have thrown in away due to lack of experience and id say in webber's case just lack of consistency.

Vettel is young give him 5 years and he could have a WDC or 2 under his belt but to me if he wins it this season it will just show the failure of the other teams to catch up and not the outstanding driving by the winner.

Oh, it doesn't matter.

Kubica got horrendously out of shape at Eau Rouge at Spa because of the rain, but he got the car back and squeezed Vettel on the grass keeping him behind.
Also, Vettel passed Kubica in the end at Spa, right?

It wasn't at the end it was near the start and yes that was one of Vettel's best overtakes so far, i forgot about it even though i do remember posting about it after the race and complimenting him on it.
Sadly most of that race was flawed by his 2 collisions so even though he made a great overtake it kind of got blurred by what happened a few laps later.

Also not sure when Kubica got out of shape maybe i missed it, all i remember between Kubica and Vettel was the overtake at the hairpin at i think turn 1.

Kubica got out of shape but they didnt actually show it happen, we only saw Vettel being squeezed onto the grass and then gesturing in anger afterward. I think there was a replay shortly after that showing the whole thing Kubica ran a bit wide at the end of Eau Rouge and then rejoined ahead of Vettel.

[Hammer278]

Man, Hamilton and Vettel. That's the most dunderheaded pairing I've ever heard. They clash almost as much as Alonso and Hamilton, but Vettel (Unlike Hamilton and Alonso) is not one of the top 3 or 4 drivers. And they're both hyper-aggressive, so you run the risk of multiple double-DNFs

You might want to take 'potential' into consideration. When McLaren had the choice between Heidfeld and Kimi to replace Mika, they snapped up Kimi. When Heidfeld was much more consistent and beat Kimi during their time together. And we all know how Kimi turned out. Heidfeld was a solid consistent driver, but that's it. He spent grandfather years in F1 and is a solid points scoring driver who can be very very good for any team, but not great.

Hamilton and Vettel would be a killer pairing. Vettel can only get better, and he's already doing very well. He's just a win behind Webber at this stage, and this is with multiple reliability problems and a couple of silly crashes. If McLaren snap him up and partner him with Lewis in 2 or 3 years time, that is going to be one pairing no one can call bets on. Even for Lewis fans.

[vaptin]

Hamilton and Vettel would be a killer pairing. Vettel can only get better,

Not necessarily

[wittgenfrog]

In terms of the idea of Vettel in a McLaren (presumably alongside Lewis), it won't happen!
Why on earth would Martin Whitmarsh want Vettel when he's got a 'Dream Team' where Jenson's sang-froid so brilliantly complements Lewis' more direct approach? If Button loses interest (no sign yet) or Lewis leaves because McLaren's cars are too slow, or.... Then maybe, though Vettel is now inured to having the fastest car, and I can't see him moving unless RBR deliver him a couple of "dogs".

As to Vettel's overall quality all arguments are pretty much "moot" at present. The obvious question to ask is:
"If he's so brilliant, how come doddery old slow-coach Mark Webber is currently beating him?"
It's not a case of the Tortoise and the Hare, either. This year, in the same car, Webber has been consistently fast, and made significantly fewer unforced errors.

My gut feeling is that Vettel lacks the last nth degree of perception that differentiates between the very good and the great. He's crashed disastrously twice now in circumstances where Senna or even Schumacher (whom he most resembles) would have been more circumspect. In order to "put manners" on your opponents they don't simply have to be afraid of you, they actually have to believe you're better than them. Senna had that Schumacher had it, Hamilton is getting it. My suspicion is that they think Vettel's a bit of a sausage, and therefore doesn't have the authority needed.

I'm categorically NOT saying he'll never be WDC. Given a really fast car he'll always stand a chance, but if he fails to be WDC this year he'll have blown a great opportunity.

Just my two 'pennorth

[AKR]

SPEED reports;

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh has admitted he is still interested in securing the services of Sebastian Vettel.

Whitmarsh was highly critical of the 23-year-old German recently, describing him as a "crash kid" after punting Jenson Button out of the Belgian Grand Prix.

"Under pressure this year, Sebastian is making just too many mistakes," the Briton said in an interview with Sport Bild.

"Also his collision with Mark Webber in Turkey, for me, was 95 percent his fault."

But when looking around for a replacement for Fernando Alonso at the end of 2007, McLaren offered then Toro Rosso rookie Vettel a deal that was vetoed by contract holders Red Bull.

Whitmarsh confirmed: "I am open and honest enough to admit it.
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh (Pictured) has been critical of Sebastian Vettel in the past. (Photo: LAT Photographic)

"Sebastian is one of the great and promising talents, and we at McLaren wanted to have him.

"We were not able to sign him at that time," the Briton confirmed.

Vettel is now signed up with Red Bull Racing until 2012.

"If he continues to develop so fantastically, then at the end of his contract I will try once again to get him," revealed Whitmarsh.

It must not ever happen, it wont ever happen. If he ever leaves Red Bull, his destination will be at Ferrari where only there will he be able to follow in the footsteps of the legendary Michael Schumacher.

[Robert12010]

SPEED reports;

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh has admitted he is still interested in securing the services of Sebastian Vettel.

Whitmarsh was highly critical of the 23-year-old German recently, describing him as a "crash kid" after punting Jenson Button out of the Belgian Grand Prix.

"Under pressure this year, Sebastian is making just too many mistakes," the Briton said in an interview with Sport Bild.

"Also his collision with Mark Webber in Turkey, for me, was 95 percent his fault."

But when looking around for a replacement for Fernando Alonso at the end of 2007, McLaren offered then Toro Rosso rookie Vettel a deal that was vetoed by contract holders Red Bull.

Whitmarsh confirmed: "I am open and honest enough to admit it.
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh (Pictured) has been critical of Sebastian Vettel in the past. (Photo: LAT Photographic)

"Sebastian is one of the great and promising talents, and we at McLaren wanted to have him.

"We were not able to sign him at that time," the Briton confirmed.

Vettel is now signed up with Red Bull Racing until 2012.

"If he continues to develop so fantastically, then at the end of his contract I will try once again to get him," revealed Whitmarsh.

It must not ever happen, it wont ever happen. If he ever leaves Red Bull, his destination will be at Ferrari where only there will he be able to follow in the footsteps of the legendary Michael Schumacher.

hahaha akr is on it now!!, it must not ever happen who are you? the empire leader or something?!

[Jensonb]

SPEED reports;

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh has admitted he is still interested in securing the services of Sebastian Vettel.

Whitmarsh was highly critical of the 23-year-old German recently, describing him as a "crash kid" after punting Jenson Button out of the Belgian Grand Prix.

"Under pressure this year, Sebastian is making just too many mistakes," the Briton said in an interview with Sport Bild.

"Also his collision with Mark Webber in Turkey, for me, was 95 percent his fault."

But when looking around for a replacement for Fernando Alonso at the end of 2007, McLaren offered then Toro Rosso rookie Vettel a deal that was vetoed by contract holders Red Bull.

Whitmarsh confirmed: "I am open and honest enough to admit it.
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh (Pictured) has been critical of Sebastian Vettel in the past. (Photo: LAT Photographic)

"Sebastian is one of the great and promising talents, and we at McLaren wanted to have him.

"We were not able to sign him at that time," the Briton confirmed.

Vettel is now signed up with Red Bull Racing until 2012.

"If he continues to develop so fantastically, then at the end of his contract I will try once again to get him," revealed Whitmarsh.

It must not ever happen, it wont ever happen. If he ever leaves Red Bull, his destination will be at Ferrari where only there will he be able to follow in the footsteps of the legendary Michael Schumacher.

Relax AKR, you'll live longer.

[Robert12010]

SPEED reports;

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh has admitted he is still interested in securing the services of Sebastian Vettel.

Whitmarsh was highly critical of the 23-year-old German recently, describing him as a "crash kid" after punting Jenson Button out of the Belgian Grand Prix.

"Under pressure this year, Sebastian is making just too many mistakes," the Briton said in an interview with Sport Bild.

"Also his collision with Mark Webber in Turkey, for me, was 95 percent his fault."

But when looking around for a replacement for Fernando Alonso at the end of 2007, McLaren offered then Toro Rosso rookie Vettel a deal that was vetoed by contract holders Red Bull.

Whitmarsh confirmed: "I am open and honest enough to admit it.
McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh (Pictured) has been critical of Sebastian Vettel in the past. (Photo: LAT Photographic)

"Sebastian is one of the great and promising talents, and we at McLaren wanted to have him.

"We were not able to sign him at that time," the Briton confirmed.

Vettel is now signed up with Red Bull Racing until 2012.

"If he continues to develop so fantastically, then at the end of his contract I will try once again to get him," revealed Whitmarsh.

It must not ever happen, it wont ever happen. If he ever leaves Red Bull, his destination will be at Ferrari where only there will he be able to follow in the footsteps of the legendary Michael Schumacher.

Relax AKR, you'll live longer.

thats true!!

[Juliet P]

It must not ever happen, it wont ever happen. If he ever leaves Red Bull, his destination will be at Ferrari where only there will he be able to follow in the footsteps of the legendary Michael Schumacher.

hahaha akr is on it now!!, it must not ever happen who are you? the empire leader or something?!

Yes. Yes she is.

[What's Burning?]

AKR is still on a high from the results at Monza.

I don't think she needs to relax for longevity, on the contrary another high double podium finish for Ferrari this weekend and she won't survive the partying.

[myownalias]

It's definitely more likely that Vettel will go to Ferrari; after all they pay the most on the grid! Do drivers really go to Ferrari for the Marque or the money? I think the later!