FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Jensonb]

I can not believe that with the spotlight thrown at Ferrari, just for sharing information with their drivers, that no one stopped to think if that was considered team orders, then the same should apply to Red Bull by taking Mark Webber's wing and give it to Sebastian Vettel, is that not the same thing if we are all going to make assumptions??

Actually, no it's not the same thing, not even close. Not that it's not a total d**k move on Red Bull's part, it's just not the same thing.

[Flux]

yet again missing the point.

there are millions more fans watching on tv than at the race, but i imagine they don't count right because you haven't studied their clothes.

you wonder why so many people on this forum are ferrari haters, it may not be the only reason but for me anyway its the attitude that gets me, its always the same thing.... "Ferrari ARE F1" , if you cannot see the problem with that then stop calling everyone ferrari haters based on non opinion comments.

we are abit off topic FYI

so, how can FIA say they dont have enough evidence to prove ferrari used team orders but not give back the fine, and not clear ferrari of it.

[f1ea]

I can not believe that with the spotlight thrown at Ferrari, just for sharing information with their drivers, that no one stopped to think if that was considered team orders, then the same should apply to Red Bull by taking Mark Webber's wing and give it to Sebastian Vettel, is that not the same thing if we are all going to make assumptions??

Actually, no it's not the same thing, not even close. Not that it's not a total d**k move on Red Bull's part, it's just not the same thing.

Not the same.
The parts were used in PRACTICE. Hence, whatever the order or change may have done, theoretically it couldn't 'affect the outcome of a race'.

[Jensonb]

I've been looking over Ferrari's defence a bit in some summaries...Amazingly, it seems they have tried to claim at some point that Massa slowed down by accident or through demoralisation when Smedley told him he was slower. Which is the most ludicrous claim I've ver heard, but that's not the crazy part.


The crazy part is when you try to explain why Smedley said "Good lad" and "Sorry" in that fantastical scenario.

You've got to hand it to Ferrari, when they cheat, they really go for it

[bud]

technically they lied to the stewards and now the WMSC Lewis got DSQ for doing the same thing. So should they

[Hammer278]

Screw them, Lewis got stripped off points/win(s) in his WDC year and still got the damn trophy.

These Ferrari turds will cheat and cheat and still not win squat this season. I look forward to their a_ss getting handed to them at home ground this Sunday. By whoever, McLaren, Redbull, Force India, bring it on.

[f1ea]

so, how can FIA say they dont have enough evidence to prove ferrari used team orders but not give back the fine, and not clear ferrari of it.

Because the stewards found enough evidence to issue a punishment. But the stewards' punishment is limited, so they sent it to the WMSC, which needs harder evidence to impose harsher punishment than the stewards can. Basically, they needed Massa to say: "yes, that was an order". Doesnt mean it did not happen, but there are hundreds of ways it can and has been done without producing such damning evidence. Ask all the teams that have done it for creative ways of pulling it.......

Its not the same as the "lying to the stewards" incident with Lewis because they found HARD evidence that proved Lewis gave 2 different stories.

Its a farce. But the rule is a farce because F1 is a team sport and because its absurd to say teams will not try to maximise their chances at the championships. Its always been done.

So the argument is that its not the most spectacular?
well, saving fuel is not spectacular either, and many times we have to settle with 10 laps of fuel saving just because they choose to avoid risk. The SC is also not very exciting, and yet they use it to avoid accidents... lots of things arent the most spectacular and they happen all the time.

I dont know why the Macca crew is so whiny... maybe they need to learn a bit of TV smashing... it eases off the need to whine endlessly

[Jensonb]

Its a farce. But the rule is a farce because F1 is a team sport and because its absurd to say teams will not try to maximise their chances at the championships. Its always been done.

No, the rule is perfectly reasonable. It's having the rule and not enforcing it properly that's a farce

[Flux]

to be fair ferrari have given 4 or 5 different stories .... or variations on similar ones at least.

to your point, todt said that there was not enough evidence to prove they gave the orders not that the stewards fine was unsubstantiated.



sorry to run way off the topic but, if F1 is a team sport what was the need for the team orders in the first place ? if it were a team sport massa winning would have been good enough.

[f1ea]

sorry to run way off the topic but, if F1 is a team sport what was the need for the team orders in the first place ? if it were a team sport massa winning would have been good enough.

good enough is not enough. They wanted the best result for the team. Which means both championships and one of the drivers was deemed by them closer to getting it.

At least there is some resignation for the haters.......... Alonso will not win the WDC.
Too many pts were wasted and the Red Bull is too strong; also the Mclarens have been like Massa was in Spa: keeping out of trouble and more fortunate with decisions and strategy.

[The Immortal Dragon]

At least there is some resignation for the haters.......... Alonso will not win the WDC.

Never say never.

It's really tough for him, but you never know what's going to happen. Especially in F1.

[vaptin]

to be fair ferrari have given 4 or 5 different stories .... or variations on similar ones at least.

To the Stewards?

Screw them, Lewis got stripped off points/win(s) in his WDC year and still got the damn trophy.

These Ferrari turds will cheat and cheat and still not win squat this season. I look forward to their a_ss getting handed to them at home ground this Sunday. By whoever, McLaren, Redbull, Force India, bring it on.

Guess you think Ferrari are the only team that would use team orders?

[Jensonb]

At least there is some resignation for the haters.......... Alonso will not win the WDC.

Never say never.

It's really tough for him, but you never know what's going to happen. Especially in F1.

Are you saying that anything can happen in F1 - and it usually does?

[FRAFPDD]

have made a 360 in the last two months in my opinion, i dont like Alonso (as a personality) anyway but after Germany i was just like, you utter turd paella.
I still think h was a douche to complain that much and refuse to take Massa on-track. but team order RULES have to be scrapped. They arent THAT bad anyway when you think about it, was annoying how all this palava about the WMSC hearing and they just do nothing. That was pretty pointless. Either way, if Alonso manages to win this year then he would definitely have been the driverof the last part of the season. I dont think he deserves it though, and cant see him doing it either.

[The Immortal Dragon]

At least there is some resignation for the haters.......... Alonso will not win the WDC.

Never say never.

It's really tough for him, but you never know what's going to happen. Especially in F1.

Are you saying that anything can happen in F1 - and it usually does?

Yeah, but I didn't want to quote Murray