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[vaptin]

Don't think they'll throw the book at them, the can of worms scenario. I think a token fine, just to be seen as doing something since Ferrari made it obvious, and a rule change. Hopefully well thought out.

Also realised I ended up talking about Hamilton on here again, his name should be filtered unless its in the thread title or OP or summin.

[What's Burning?]

We should have had an official forum pool and given a prize to the person that most accurately guessed the hearing's outcome.

Huge fine, perhaps suspended ban. They surely can't go disqualifying them and opening a stupidly big can of worms in the process...

In actuality the outcomes I'd prefer is simply reverse Alonso's and Massa's positions and take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race.

Can they actually do that?

Nope, not once the results are made official on the Sunday night after the race i believe.

What's the point of the hearing then if that's the case? Simply to impose a greater financial fine?

This is technically still an investigation and although the results can't be changed once they become final, that's for things that were not addressed during the race, like the Massa grid incident. This is something that was address and referred by the stewards to the court.

[The Immortal Dragon]

But I think they can give penalties such as 5,20 seconds penalties.. I don't think they can just swap positions.

[Hammer278]

Strip Ferrari off the win and give it to Vettel the poor clown deserves it after baggin 7 od poles this season cmon.....

[What's Burning?]

I think they will lose constructors points for that race. And maybe an extra fine.
No touching of the drivers' points and no touching of the finishing order for the race.

Still, I demand my action at the turkey GP. Jenson had more fuel in left, and he could have gone for the pass. We were robbed.

Get real. No stewards fine, no investigation, no race changing outcome, simply a reactionary argument on the part of some Ferrari fans, that others broke the rule so it should also be enforced for them.

Why do you think there was an uproar about what Ferrari did? Why do you think stewards felt the need to fine Ferrari and not other teams that have placed "orders" we all agree practically something every team is guilty of?

Because Ferrari did it egregiously and with out any regard for anything but themselves. So egregiously that there was dissent within Ferrari itself.

And no, Lewis did not pout becuase he was gifted the win. That is the biggest BS ever. He pouted because he felt the team misleaded him, just like he pouted when the team got his tire strategy wrong.

Fan of Lewis or no fan... These guys dont pout when they get a lucky win. That doesnt take anything away from him. But... get real!

Nothing but opinion on your part, the same as my opinion that Alonso was jubilant when his team gifted him a win they took from his teammate. We'll always disagree on this point.

[Flux]

lots going on, on twitter. speculation is that things will be announced around 7pm CET

[f1ea]

Get real. No stewards fine, no investigation, no race changing outcome, simply a reactionary argument on the part of some Ferrari fans, that others broke the rule so it should also be enforced for them.

Why do you think there was an uproar about what Ferrari did? Why do you think stewards felt the need to fine Ferrari and not other teams that have placed "orders" we all agree practically something every team is guilty of?

Because Ferrari did it egregiously and with out any regard for anything but themselves. So egregiously that there was dissent within Ferrari itself.

Not a reactionary argument. Just proof of the precedent of penalties handed out to team orders. The FIA can't simply invent a super punishment out of the blue, because the same break of rule has been done before to no punishment.

The "way" in which it went on... well, the rules say nothing about the manner in which things should occur. A team order is a team order, whether there's a pout or not.

Nothing but opinion on your part, the same as my opinion that Alonso was jubilant when his team gifted him a win they took from his teammate. We'll always disagree on this point.

Yes, opinion. The same kind of opinion saying Lewis only pouted because he was 'handed the win'....
And by the way... Alonso was not exhuberant at the win, his body language said it all. And that is not opinion, its fact. I asked my shrink and he agreed... hehehe j/k (about the shrink)

[nish2280]

what McLaren did was actually quite different. It was a hidden team order but it could have been for various reasons. First of all they were basically told to hold their positions, this could have been a strategic call as it is well known that in racing when two drivers are battling for position they often loose time, this is due to various reasons which i wont go into as i believe most of you are well rehearsed in Formula One antics.

So McLaren could have made the call in order to build up a greater gap over the cars behind them, which, in case of an emergency (such as critical fuel level) if one driver needs to turn his engine down they would not be overtaken.

I agree this kinda ruined the race, because there would have been nothing better to see not only the RedBulls take each other out but also the McLarens! But i dont necessarily think it was punishable.

But in my opinion more teams should be like RedBull, let their drivers race. Any favoritism after is irrelevant, what happens on the track is what counts.

[bud]

the last time McLaren did anything like Ferrari did in Germany was in Australia 98. Any other argument being brought forward is reaching!

And by the way... Alonso was not exhuberant at the win, his body language said it all. And that is not opinion, its fact. I asked my shrink and he agreed... hehehe j/k (about the shrink)

I believe his comments after the race were "a win is always special" or something along those lines. Either way he acted like he deserved it

[What's Burning?]

We'll find out soon enough.

I'm almost giddy with anticipation, regardless of the outcome, at least this thread will be much less active and we can get back to arguin.... err discussing other topics.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Ferrari set to escape futher penalties

Ferrari looks set to escape further sanction over its alleged deployment of team orders in the German Grand Prix.

The team was fined $100,000 by the Hockenheim race stewards and referred to the FIA World Motor Sport Council after Felipe Massa slowed and allowed Fernando Alonso to pass him for the lead - with the Spaniard going on to take a win that resurrected his title bid.

The WMSC hearing over the matter took place in Paris today, but Angelo Sticchi Damiani, head of Italian motorsport federation the CSAI, told reporters outside that the governing body had agreed unanimously not to impose any extra punishment, according to the Reuters news agency.

Team orders have been banned in Formula 1 since the outcry over Ferrari's handling of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, when Rubens Barrichello handed victory to team-mate Michael Schumacher within sight of the chequered flag - even though the German already had a comfortable lead.

Suspicions were aroused at Hockenheim when Ferrari informed Massa over the radio that Alonso "was faster" than him, and then asked if he 'understood' the message. Shortly afterwards, the Brazilian relinquished the lead, and was subsequently thanked by his engineer Rob Smedley, who also said "sorry" in the same radio transmission.

Ferrari argued that it was Massa's own choice to cede the lead, and that it had simply presented the situation to him over the radio. Alonso had been the quicker of the Ferrari drivers for much of the weekend, but was passed by his team-mate at the start.

[Flux]

i don't understand why Ferrari we not charged with lieing to the stewards ect ?

anyway didnt expect much from WMSC and didnt get much in the end.

[kerc]

Excellent job, Mr. Todt.

/sarcasm

[myownalias]

Nothing unexpected from the WMSC hearing then! Scrap the rule; it's clearly never going to be enforced!

"If the rule was removed, the teams would instead tacitly agree not to use team orders as much as possible." - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 964502.stm

There is one word that I associate with the above statement - BULLSH*T

If it's truly a team sport; two drivers, one car, endurance racing format!!!

[vaptin]

i don't understand why Ferrari we not charged with lieing to the stewards ect ?

anyway didnt expect much from WMSC and didnt get much in the end.

We don't know what they said to the Stewards, it looks like they took the line they were just making sure Massa knew Alonso was faster than him, so he knew not to do anything silly resulting in a redbull like situation, hence Massa let Alonso through. Prove otherwise.

Mr Todt stood aside for this one, so don't blame him.

right who wins the mystery prize? I claim to have come close, token fine is the £100 grand. Very strange that still applies, unless the FIA have no power to remove that?

Next up is a rule change, you can't enforce this rule as Ferrari just proved.

I fully expect bullpoo from Horner, but I reckon the other team bosses will accept it.