FORUMula1.com

[bud]

Can't believe you Ferrari guys can't see a difference with all the scenarios you're bringing up! My last post explains the team order rule and what it's there for!

[Hammer278]

Whatever...let's hope the WMSC sticks to their guns and strips those Ferraris off all their points from the GP. Then we can move on.

[Jensonb]

First of all, only because it was Red Bull. If it was Mclaren... you wouldnt find it terrible... as you didnt find it when they gave the SAVE FUEL order in Turkey. c'mon... that was a hold position call. Jenson could have raced Lewis like you stress. But yet, they and the team chose not to.

I wanted the MP4 to take eachother out battling for the lead... I was cheated of my action!

Well I was talking about the Ferraris, so there goes that argument.

Second...I mean, what the hell. Do you people not notice the Signature and the Avatar and the bleeding username? Are you seriously sitting there thinking that I, of all people, would sweep aside McLaren prioritising Lewis over Jenson? Why do you people think I'm a McLaren fan? I'm - clearly - a Jenson fan, so if there was the slightest credible hint of impropriety on the part of McLaren in their handling of Jenson, guess what: It'd be me making that argument, not you.

You were cheated out of nothing. Button did attack Lewis for the lead, then Lewis attacked Button to regain it. The rule in question bans teams from cynically and deliberately (Cryptically or overtly) instructing drivers to change positions. Hold station orders are not covered by the the team orders rule and are, at any rate, significantly less controversial as they have many legitimate racing purposes (Such as, in this case saving fuel).

Can't believe you Ferrari guys can't see a difference with all the scenarios you're bringing up!

Guys, look, if you can't see the very clear difference between what Ferrari did (Both in Hungary and in Austria 2002) and instructing a driver not to waste their limited fuel supply by getting greedy and forcing an overtake, I just don't know what to tell you any more.

[Robert12010]

well we shall find out ferrari's fate sometime this afternoon, (hearing takes place at 3pm paris time), so might be on 6 o clock news on bbc

[AKR]

Team orders, there is nothing to really explain. Except who cares. If you think Team Orders are bad, may you should go watch the circus clowns perform. On the weekend I watched a round of the WTCC. The main Seat driver and reigning champion Gabriele Tarquini had a bad day. Race 2 he had to start 20 something on the grid. The other Seat drivers were told to move over and they did. GT1 race which I saw the week of the Spa F1 GP. The 2 Vitafone racing Maseratis swap positions on team orders very much at the start of the race. WRC, although there hasnt been a need for it this year because Loeb has very much sealed the title again, but last year when he had a bad rally, all Citroen drivers were ordered to slow down so Loeb could re-mount a comeback and score valueable points. Conclusion, team orders used everywhere and is ok in F1 as well. Hearing is at 3pm. Paris is the same time as Ljubljana so thats not all that long away. I will probably check for a verdict at 4pm then. I expect Ferrari to get away with this since they are Ferrari and can do what they please. And I know Todt was asked to step down because of his past ties to Ferrari and his deputy will be handling this. But if his deputy wants to still be his deputy after this he had better make a descision in favour of Ferrari.

By the way I know it will still be hard for Alonso to win this years WDC, even if he loses no points after this. I just want Ferrari to get away with this for the simple fact that everyone needs to see that Ferrari are Ferrari and no one can mess with them.

[Gaz]

Team orders, there is nothing to really explain. Except who cares. If you think Team Orders are bad, may you should go watch the circus clowns perform. On the weekend I watched a round of the WTCC. The main Seat driver and reigning champion Gabriele Tarquini had a bad day. Race 2 he had to start 20 something on the grid. The other Seat drivers were told to move over and they did. GT1 race which I saw the week of the Spa F1 GP. The 2 Vitafone racing Maseratis swap positions on team orders very much at the start of the race. WRC, although there hasnt been a need for it this year because Loeb has very much sealed the title again, but last year when he had a bad rally, all Citroen drivers were ordered to slow down so Loeb could re-mount a comeback and score valueable points. Conclusion, team orders used everywhere and is ok in F1 as well. Hearing is at 3pm. Paris is the same time as Ljubljana so thats not all that long away. I will probably check for a verdict at 4pm then. I expect Ferrari to get away with this since they are Ferrari and can do what they please. And I know Todt was asked to step down because of his past ties to Ferrari and his deputy will be handling this. But if his deputy wants to still be his deputy after this he had better make a descision in favour of Ferrari.

By the way I know it will still be hard for Alonso to win this years WDC, even if he loses no points after this. I just want Ferrari to get away with this for the simple fact that everyone needs to see that Ferrari are Ferrari and no one can mess with them.

I care the fans care, it ruined a race.

I say 100mil Fine + Loss of all Constructors points

[The Immortal Dragon]

By the way I know it will still be hard for Alonso to win this years WDC, even if he loses no points after this. I just want Ferrari to get away with this for the simple fact that everyone needs to see that Ferrari are Ferrari and no one can mess with them.

I would have said "because i think it's right", if I were you

[The Immortal Dragon]

Hill: Ferrari shouldn't get big penalty

[What's Burning?]

Can't believe you Ferrari guys can't see a difference with all the scenarios you're bringing up! My last post explains the team order rule and what it's there for!

If that happens Vettle will be given a race win. Webber becomes the biggest loser since he takes the least amount of points of the top 4. Lewis streches his lead that much further.

Just to keep things stable, I hope IF they take away Ferrari driver's points, they don't move everyone up the ladder.

In actuality the outcomes I'd prefer is simply reverse Alonso's and Massa's positions and take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race.

[The Immortal Dragon]

In actuality the outcomes I'd prefer is simply reverse Alonso's and Massa's positions and take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race.

Can they actually do that?

[What's Burning?]

We should have had an official forum pool and given a prize to the person that most accurately guessed the hearing's outcome.

[Flux]

IF there is a points deduction for Germany, I doubt it will be driver based and just be WCC points + a fine. but i just get the feeling that Ferrari are gona get away with it from the amount of articles on the story.

[scotty]

We should have had an official forum pool and given a prize to the person that most accurately guessed the hearing's outcome.

Huge fine, perhaps suspended ban. They surely can't go disqualifying them and opening a stupidly big can of worms in the process...

In actuality the outcomes I'd prefer is simply reverse Alonso's and Massa's positions and take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race.

Can they actually do that?

Nope, not once the results are made official on the Sunday night after the race i believe.

[The Immortal Dragon]

In actuality the outcomes I'd prefer is simply reverse Alonso's and Massa's positions and take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race.

Can they actually do that?

Nope, not once the results are made official on the Sunday night after the race i believe.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[f1ea]

I think they will lose constructors points for that race. And maybe an extra fine.
No touching of the drivers' points and no touching of the finishing order for the race.

Still, I demand my action at the turkey GP. Jenson had more fuel in left, and he could have gone for the pass. We were robbed.

And no, Lewis did not pout becuase he was gifted the win. That is the biggest BS ever. He pouted because he felt the team misleaded him, just like he pouted when the team got his tire strategy wrong. Fan of Lewis or no fan... These guys dont pout when they get a lucky win. That doesnt take anything away from him. But... get real!