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[bud]

Everyone should be debating what punishment is going to be given, Or if the 100k is sufficient enough. The stewards of the meeting found them guilty of team orders already.

[myownalias]

Everyone should be debating what punishment is going to be given, Or if the 100k is sufficient enough. The stewards of the meeting found them guilty of team orders already.

Slapped wrist with another token fine of $400k; I'd be surprised if anything other than a monetary punishment comes out of it!

[bud]

Everyone should be debating what punishment is going to be given, Or if the 100k is sufficient enough. The stewards of the meeting found them guilty of team orders already.

Slapped wrist with another token fine of $400k; I'd be surprised if anything other than a monetary punishment comes out of it!

I think it will be either they lose the contsructor points for Germany(which Ferrari wouldn't really care about) or they get DSQ from the race results (which Ferrari would care about)

[Frosty]

My bet is suspended 3 race ban

[vaptin]

The sin is the order, not whether or not its obeyed.

Nah, the sin is me not being able to see racers race, man did I enjoy Vettle trying to pass Webber. Man did I enjoy Jenson overtaking Lewis and then having Lewis push to take back his spot. REAL racing. I enjoyed that! it will be in every single highlight clip of the 2010 season.

I didn't get to see Alonso RACE pass Massa... a driver that according the the world should have not been able to hold him off and was struggling with the hard tire compound. So I don't actually know if Alonso can overtake Massa when he has to, I haven't seen it.

OH WAIT... yeah there was once this year that I saw Alonso actually overtake Massa, that was in the entrance to pit lane!

.

Also the start in Bahrain. Ever seen Massa overtake Alonso?

[f1ea]

Everyone should be debating what punishment is going to be given, Or if the 100k is sufficient enough. The stewards of the meeting found them guilty of team orders already.

Exactly. The "argument" comes from that because there have been more than a couple episodes of team orders (more goes on than we can hear on TV coverage you know)... all to no or very little punishment... the FIA have to come up with some sort of consistent punishment; not some outrageous punishment, just because some people didnt like what they saw.

Nah, the sin is me not being able to see racers race, man did I enjoy Vettle trying to pass Webber. Man did I enjoy Jenson overtaking Lewis and then having Lewis push to take back his spot. REAL racing. I enjoyed that! it will be in every single highlight clip of the 2010 season.

I didn't get to see Alonso RACE pass Massa... a driver that according the the world should have not been able to hold him off and was struggling with the hard tire compound. So I don't actually know if Alonso can overtake Massa when he has to, I haven't seen it.

I'm sure Vettel's crashes will also be in all the highlights too. Also, Vettel's hands waiving in the pitlane at Hungary will be in the highlights... know what.... personally: i dont want to see that. Lewis' girlfriend is shown every 5 laps... do i want to see her?

Let's ALL be honest here: the rule was made to hold off Schumacher winning all those consecutive titles.
Just the same as some teams are fighting the moving wing, and the double diffuser........ when a team or driver find a formula that gives them success: the others will challenge it by any means.

What F1 needs is sturdier cars. Those damn things are way too fragile.

[What's Burning?]

The sin is the order, not whether or not its obeyed.

Nah, the sin is me not being able to see racers race, man did I enjoy Vettle trying to pass Webber. Man did I enjoy Jenson overtaking Lewis and then having Lewis push to take back his spot. REAL racing. I enjoyed that! it will be in every single highlight clip of the 2010 season.

I didn't get to see Alonso RACE pass Massa... a driver that according the the world should have not been able to hold him off and was struggling with the hard tire compound. So I don't actually know if Alonso can overtake Massa when he has to, I haven't seen it.

OH WAIT... yeah there was once this year that I saw Alonso actually overtake Massa, that was in the entrance to pit lane!

.

Also the start in Bahrain. Ever seen Massa overtake Alonso?

I stand corrected. but to answer your question, he hasn't had many oportunities, Alonso has been behind him in quite a few races, Australia, Malaysia, Monaco, Turkey, "Germany" Belgium.... not so bad for a driver that's struggling.

[What's Burning?]

Lewis' girlfriend is shown every 5 laps... do i want to see her?

Ummm.... *thinking* that's a tough one.

[vaptin]

Yes, Massa has been quite consistent, the problem is his pace and racing just seems slightly behind the drivers he's around - Lewis, Button, Webber, Vettel, Kubica, I hope it's down to coming back from his injury, and the fine "sharpness" needed to be a competitive f1 driver is just lacking and will be back next season. Maybe its psychological, he's nervous, feels threatened by Alonso, out qualified him in Bhrain, same in Turkey which is a track Massa is good at, and looked to be well and truly back as he swooped passed Alonso and Vettel in Hungary and despite struggling blocked Alonso a couple of times, perhaps that suggests it really is just down to this years f10 not suiting Massa which we can again put down to missing out on its development last season becuase of his injury?

[f1ea]

I stand corrected. but to answer your question, he hasn't had many oportunities, Alonso has been behind him in quite a few races, Australia, Malaysia, Monaco, Turkey, "Germany" Belgium.... not so bad for a driver that's struggling.

Tureky is Massa's track. Good job there; the car was not that good for it... but Massa is simply very good around Turkey. Same for Interlagos.

The other races... LOTS of drivers had been ahead of Alonso, for various reasons. Including struggling drivers in struggling cars.

[racechick]

Yes, Massa has been quite consistent, the problem is his pace and racing just seems slightly behind the drivers he's around - Lewis, Button, Webber, Vettel, Kubica, I hope it's down to coming back from his injury, and the fine "sharpness" needed to be a competitive f1 driver is just lacking and will be back next season. Maybe its psychological, he's nervous, feels threatened by Alonso, out qualified him in Bhrain, same in Turkey which is a track Massa is good at, and looked to be well and truly back as he swooped passed Alonso and Vettel in Hungary and despite struggling blocked Alonso a couple of times, perhaps that suggests it really is just down to this years f10 not suiting Massa which we can again put down to missing out on its development last season becuase of his injury?

A lots to do with how the tyres perform this year. Schumi is experiencing similar problems.

[vaptin]

Yes, Massa has been quite consistent, the problem is his pace and racing just seems slightly behind the drivers he's around - Lewis, Button, Webber, Vettel, Kubica, I hope it's down to coming back from his injury, and the fine "sharpness" needed to be a competitive f1 driver is just lacking and will be back next season. Maybe its psychological, he's nervous, feels threatened by Alonso, out qualified him in Bhrain, same in Turkey which is a track Massa is good at, and looked to be well and truly back as he swooped passed Alonso and Vettel in Hungary and despite struggling blocked Alonso a couple of times, perhaps that suggests it really is just down to this years f10 not suiting Massa which we can again put down to missing out on its development last season becuase of his injury?

A lots to do with how the tyres perform this year. Schumi is experiencing similar problems.

Yeah, although Ferrari said they were working with him with car development on this ages back, bit disappointed he's still kinda struggling although the tryes are supposed to be an inexact science and getting them to working temperature is supposed to be one of the biggest unknowns for the teams.

Button's struggled too I think?

Could shake the grid up then, with the new tyres next year.

[racechick]

Yes, Massa has been quite consistent, the problem is his pace and racing just seems slightly behind the drivers he's around - Lewis, Button, Webber, Vettel, Kubica, I hope it's down to coming back from his injury, and the fine "sharpness" needed to be a competitive f1 driver is just lacking and will be back next season. Maybe its psychological, he's nervous, feels threatened by Alonso, out qualified him in Bhrain, same in Turkey which is a track Massa is good at, and looked to be well and truly back as he swooped passed Alonso and Vettel in Hungary and despite struggling blocked Alonso a couple of times, perhaps that suggests it really is just down to this years f10 not suiting Massa which we can again put down to missing out on its development last season becuase of his injury?

A lots to do with how the tyres perform this year. Schumi is experiencing similar problems.

Yeah, although Ferrari said they were working with him with car development on this ages back, bit disappointed he's still kinda struggling although the tryes are supposed to be an inexact science and getting them to working temperature is supposed to be one of the biggest unknowns for the teams.

Button's struggled too I think?

Could shake the grid up then, with the new tyres next year.

Yes it could shake up the grid, be interesting. I hope the tyres are less 'easy'(probably the wrong word), I think Bridgestone have too little differtence between the two types and it takes away the possiblity of different strategies through the race. Jens would certainly benefit from having that extra dimension to think about but I dont think its just tyres with him. There have been times this year when he's had the car just how he likes it and been right there. With Jens its anything that knocks the car out of his perfect operating zone, could be tyres, could be set up, could be wind change.

Schumi comes from a time when he worked on the tyre development with Bridgestone and got exactly what he wanted out of the tyre. Whatever happens to the tyre this year he won't get that but he may become a big buddy with Nick Heifeld . In fact Nick may suddenly become every drivers best friend!

[AKR]

I watched the last FIA GT1 race at Nurburgring last weekend. My dad commented (as he watched the race with me). The 2 Vitaphone Racing Maseratis just swapped spots. On team orders of course. The current championship leader and reigning champions Bertolini/Bartels was behind their team mate at the start of the race and very much at the start the switch was done. Very vital since they had a bad race and the swap ensured them 6th spot and more points then the guy in second who came 11th. Now no one gives a shiit about tream orders here. Formula 1 has become a farse with team orders not allowed. Exactly what my dad said. All other motor sports allow it. Ferrari have done no wrong. If they have then Formula 1 has become a joke and might as well be the laughing stock of all motorsports rather than the pinacle. But then again you have a bunch of clowns running F1 these days so you cannot expect any better really.

[racechick]

The 'clown' running the FIA is the same clown that was running Ferrari and ordered that infamous and unecessary switch with Michael and Rubens causing this rule to be written.