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[vaptin]

wasn't Webber's fault either, assuming both had equal rights to the wing, in this situation they'd just have to go with the "natural" situation - ie Webber has the wing, Vettel doesn't, they diddn't. . .

[nish2280]

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

[/b]

Hah! i love it when people quote non-existant statistics.

Vettel:

GP starts 56
GP podiums 15

Webber:

GP starts 153
GP podiums 17

So this shows that for every GP start Vettel has ended up on the podium more times than Webber.
So your statistics dont really show that Webber is "clearly" a better driver.

(all statistics were taken from the official formula one website)

[elfinitty]

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

[/b]

Hah! i love it when people quote non-existant statistics.

Vettel:

GP starts 56
GP podiums 15

Webber:

GP starts 153
GP podiums 17

So this shows that for every GP start Vettel has ended up on the podium more times than Webber.
So your statistics dont really show that Webber is "clearly" a better driver.

(all statistics were taken from the official formula one website)

I mean this year.Its the first ever year i have been following f1.And last year.So yeah.Ok,i dont know much things about f1 but this year Webber is much more better than Vettel.

For your sentence :'Hah! i love it when people quote non-existant statistics.' You mean you love making fun of that.Dont forget that we arent machines that can keep everything in our minds or can become wise about something.

Webber is clearly better than Vettel
Are you sure?
I would say right now they are pretty much levelled.

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

I guess we don't look at the same statistics

I guess we dont because i mean this year's.I saw them some time ago i am not sure if it is still the same but i think it is.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Webber is clearly better than Vettel

Are you sure?
I would say right now they are pretty much levelled.

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

I guess we don't look at the same statistics

I guess we dont because i mean this year's.I saw them some time ago i am not sure if it is still the same but i think it is.

I think it is still arguable. Webber won a couple of races more than Vettel, but Seb also retired from the lead in Australia for a brake problem, had to settle down for 4th in Bahrain when he was leading, and lost a couple of places in Barcelona for another brake problem.
I don't seem to remember realibilty affecting Webber this much.

Also, Seb made a couple of mistakes (the crash with Webber and the crash with Button), but Webber also crashed into Kovalainen in Valencia.
Moreover, Vettel grabbed more pole-positions (which he didn't convert into victories, but they are still stats) than Webber.
I think they have been pretty much levelled during the first 13 races.

[myownalias]

The reason Mark is leading Sebastian is that he has been consistent; keeping his nose out of trouble for the most part, consistently scoring good points. Vettel has had the lions share of the mechanical failures but also has himself to blame for a lot of points lost; Vettel has allowed Webber to have a lead by making (almost rookie) mistakes. This championship isn't over yet; all it would take is for Webber and Hamilton to take each other out and suddenly Vettel, Button and even Alonso are back in the race!

[darwin dali]

and Christian Horner is a total dilf, although I'm not sure if he's a dad or not.

[f1ea]

and Christian Horner is a total dilf, although I'm not sure if he's a dad or not.

LOL
Would have totally missed that bit had it not been for DD.

I think they have been pretty much levelled during the first 13 races.

Yes.
Webber rammed Lewis and Heikki in a much simpler way. So, people cant really say Webber is that much better than Vettel, when it could go either way.

The same with pretty much everyone; except for Masssa/Alonso but thats only because Massa has some tough to solve issues like Kimi and Heidfeld have had... without the struggle, they'd be about just as close as eveyone else.

Jenson/Lewis = pretty much equal on a very good standard
Mark /Vettel = pretty much equal on an ok standard
Alonso/Massa = a bit less equal, but both on a low standard. Maybe if they both up their game... pretty equal as well.

The reason Mark is leading Sebastian is that he has been consistent; keeping his nose out of trouble for the most part, consistently scoring good points. Vettel has had the lions share of the mechanical failures but also has himself to blame for a lot of points lost; Vettel has allowed Webber to have a lead by making (almost rookie) mistakes. This championship isn't over yet; all it would take is for Webber and Hamilton to take each other out and suddenly Vettel, Button and even Alonso are back in the race!

Period.

[nish2280]

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

[/b]

Hah! i love it when people quote non-existant statistics.

Vettel:

GP starts 56
GP podiums 15

Webber:

GP starts 153
GP podiums 17

So this shows that for every GP start Vettel has ended up on the podium more times than Webber.
So your statistics dont really show that Webber is "clearly" a better driver.

(all statistics were taken from the official formula one website)

I mean this year.Its the first ever year i have been following f1.And last year.So yeah.Ok,i dont know much things about f1 but this year Webber is much more better than Vettel.

For your sentence :'Hah! i love it when people quote non-existant statistics.' You mean you love making fun of that.Dont forget that we arent machines that can keep everything in our minds or can become wise about something.

Webber is clearly better than Vettel
Are you sure?
I would say right now they are pretty much levelled.

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

I guess we don't look at the same statistics

I guess we dont because i mean this year's.I saw them some time ago i am not sure if it is still the same but i think it is.

Yes, i do find it quite funny when people make things up without any proof.It also shows that you have a completely irrational hatred against Vettel as you have no reasoning to back up your statistics because your completely ignorant to almost everything in Formula One. Its like me walking into a winery and suggesting wines when i have never drunk anything other than beer.

[bud]

So anyone that likes Webber more than Vettel means they have an irrational hatred of him? Elfinnity is only 13 or 14 so cut him some slack!

[elfinitty]

Yes, i do find it quite funny when people make things up without any proof.It also shows that you have a completely irrational hatred against Vettel as you have no reasoning to back up your statistics because your completely ignorant to almost everything in Formula One. Its like me walking into a winery and suggesting wines when i have never drunk anything other than beer.

Have fun with making fun of that then I wonder why you are trying to convince me that i have an irritational hatred on him.My statistics mean this year's statistics .This year Webber is better than Vettel and Red Bull favoritisms Vettel this year.

So anyone that likes Webber more than Vettel means they have an irrational hatred of him? Elfinnity is only 13 or 14 so cut him some slack!

Thats what i am trying to say.And,thanks but i am not him-i am her

Webber is clearly better than Vettel

Are you sure?
I would say right now they are pretty much levelled.

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

I guess we don't look at the same statistics

I guess we dont because i mean this year's.I saw them some time ago i am not sure if it is still the same but i think it is.

I think it is still arguable. Webber won a couple of races more than Vettel, but Seb also retired from the lead in Australia for a brake problem, had to settle down for 4th in Bahrain when he was leading, and lost a couple of places in Barcelona for another brake problem.
I don't seem to remember realibilty affecting Webber this much.

Also, Seb made a couple of mistakes (the crash with Webber and the crash with Button), but Webber also crashed into Kovalainen in Valencia.
Moreover, Vettel grabbed more pole-positions (which he didn't convert into victories, but they are still stats) than Webber.
I think they have been pretty much levelled during the first 13 races.

You might have a point,what i meant was that Vettel had more problems with car(he was out of the race) more than Webber was.These problems were the ones himself caused.

[nish2280]

Yes, i do find it quite funny when people make things up without any proof.It also shows that you have a completely irrational hatred against Vettel as you have no reasoning to back up your statistics because your completely ignorant to almost everything in Formula One. Its like me walking into a winery and suggesting wines when i have never drunk anything other than beer.

Have fun with making fun of that then I wonder why you are trying to convince me that i have an irritational hatred on him.My statistics mean this year's statistics .This year Webber is better than Vettel and Red Bull favoritisms Vettel this year.

So anyone that likes Webber more than Vettel means they have an irrational hatred of him? Elfinnity is only 13 or 14 so cut him some slack!

Thats what i am trying to say.And,thanks but i am not him-i am her

Webber is clearly better than Vettel

Are you sure?
I would say right now they are pretty much levelled.

When you look at the statistics you can clearly see Webber is better

I guess we don't look at the same statistics

I guess we dont because i mean this year's.I saw them some time ago i am not sure if it is still the same but i think it is.

I think it is still arguable. Webber won a couple of races more than Vettel, but Seb also retired from the lead in Australia for a brake problem, had to settle down for 4th in Bahrain when he was leading, and lost a couple of places in Barcelona for another brake problem.
I don't seem to remember realibilty affecting Webber this much.

Also, Seb made a couple of mistakes (the crash with Webber and the crash with Button), but Webber also crashed into Kovalainen in Valencia.
Moreover, Vettel grabbed more pole-positions (which he didn't convert into victories, but they are still stats) than Webber.
I think they have been pretty much levelled during the first 13 races.

You might have a point,what i meant was that Vettel had more problems with car(he was out of the race) more than Webber was.These problems were the ones himself caused.

I'm not convincing you, im telling you. And you have no proof to back up your claim of Vettel being favored by RedBull which just basically makes whatever you say wrong, this is the same for saying that Webber is better than Vettel.

SHRUB: No where did i say that liking Webber means you have an irrational hatred for Vettel, I'm trying to say that her dislike for Vettel is totally irrational. There are plenty of people such as "myownalias" who prefer Webber over Vettel but he doesnt bag on Vettel saying that hes a bad driver or that he is "clearly" favored by redbull and is unable to give reasonable proof. And I'm 15 so really age has nothing to do with elfinnity being wrong and therefore i would not cut her any slack.

But i promise not to respond further to any of the nonsense she says on this whole forum.

[vaptin]

Chill dude, its only a forum,

Redbull defending Vettel and criticising Webber over Turkey? Giving him Webber's front wing, "not bad for a number two driver".

And I believe Webber is ahead of Vettel in the drivers championship, though that's not definitive, but almost nothing is in proving one driver is better than another.

It's quite possible for one to have to a rational dislike of Vettel though

[myownalias]

Chill dude, its only a forum,

Very good advice; it is only an Internet forum; it's hardly life or death!

Redbull defending Vettel and criticising Webber over Turkey? Giving him Webber's front wing, "not bad for a number two driver".

And I believe Webber is ahead of Vettel in the drivers championship, though that's not definitive, but almost nothing is in proving one driver is better than another.

It's quite possible for one to have to a rational dislike of Vettel though

Red Bull have done a fantastic job this year of making it appear like Vettel has been favoured as Vaptin outlined above, but there is no absolute proof that Vettel is favoured within Red Bull, people are reading between the lines and making up their own mind, which is human nature. Personally I can't help wondering that if Vettel was 28 points ahead of Webber, would Red Bull have put all their eggs in Vettel's basket at this point? I just find it hard to believe anything that Christian Horner says; his comments after the Button collision, in the interview he *suggested* that it was Button's fault for braking earlier than normal which there is no proof of happening.

[AKR]

Well if Ferrari are not going to win, and if it is going to be Webber vs Hamilton for the Drivers title and Red Bull vs McLaren for the Constructors title, then yes I want Red Bull to win. If this means Webber winning at Monza if it comes down (for that race only) between him and Alonso or Massa, then be it, go Webber if it means making the difference between Red Bull or McLaren/Hamilton becoming the World Champions in the end.

[elfinitty]

Redbull defending Vettel and criticising Webber over Turkey? Giving him Webber's front wing, "not bad for a number two driver".

And I believe Webber is ahead of Vettel in the drivers championship, though that's not definitive, but almost nothing is in proving one driver is better than another.

It's quite possible for one to have to a rational dislike of Vettel though

Thats what i believe,too.Webber seems to finish the championship ahead of Vettel but idk what will happen.What made me believe Redbull defends Vettel and criticizes Webber is this front wing stuff.This is what i was trying to say in my messages of this forum

Personally I can't help wondering that if Vettel was 28 points ahead of Webber, would Red Bull have put all their eggs in Vettel's basket at this point?

Yeah,they might try to be nicer to the racer who is behind the other one.But this might make the better racer angry.What they are doing is risky.

I just find it hard to believe anything that Christian Horner says; his comments after the Button collision, in the interview he *suggested* that it was Button's fault for braking earlier than normal which there is no proof of happening.

I couldnt believe either!He did the same thing when he was talking about the Turkish GP but this is even more ridiculous.In Spa it was Vettel who drive on Button.