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#213089
Monza is the one circuit Red Bull will fall down on their knees. Force India will indeed be strong. Mercedes will suck badly. Renault I don't know - I don't remember them being great at top speed, I think their good performance in Spa is more due to the f-duct, which they won't use there. All things due, number 1 favorite I think it's Ferrari.


On the contrary, it's the Mercedes engine which was blasting the McLarens and Force Indias up Eau Rouge and passing cars like nothing. Are you talking about Mercedes the team? If you are, seems like you missed out McLaren...Ferrari's biggest barrier for a win in Monza. :hehe:
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By scotty
#213095
Monza is the one circuit Red Bull will fall down on their knees. Force India will indeed be strong. Mercedes will suck badly. Renault I don't know - I don't remember them being great at top speed, I think their good performance in Spa is more due to the f-duct, which they won't use there. All things due, number 1 favorite I think it's Ferrari.


On the contrary, it's the Mercedes engine which was blasting the McLarens and Force Indias up Eau Rouge and passing cars like nothing. Are you talking about Mercedes the team? If you are, seems like you missed out McLaren...Ferrari's biggest barrier for a win in Monza. :hehe:


Probably the Merc team. They've had poor straight line speed all season...
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By Hansy
#213100
Monza is the one circuit Red Bull will fall down on their knees. Force India will indeed be strong. Mercedes will suck badly. Renault I don't know - I don't remember them being great at top speed, I think their good performance in Spa is more due to the f-duct, which they won't use there. All things due, number 1 favorite I think it's Ferrari.


On the contrary, it's the Mercedes engine which was blasting the McLarens and Force Indias up Eau Rouge and passing cars like nothing. Are you talking about Mercedes the team? If you are, seems like you missed out McLaren...Ferrari's biggest barrier for a win in Monza. :hehe:


My question about McLaren is the f-duct. If it is not a good option in Monza, I wonder how will a car built around it cope?
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By Flux
#213123
everyone talks about the merc engine like it is on another level, the renault may be down on a few horses but through the speed traps in spa LH was only 1 kmph faster than mark webber. so "breezing up ou rouge overtaking" isnt quite a correct.

and anyway the major advantage of the mclaren is the efficiency of the f-duct being able to run more downforce.
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By cap-dude
#213137
Personally I never get why people compare speed trap's between teams. They're fairly misleading tbh

If McLaren are the fastest in a straight line, surely they'll just put on enough downforce to match Red Bull in the middle sector. Whilst Red Bull could be running less wing so they're not eaten alive down the straights. Everyone could simply be running what they think is optimum, skewing our picture of how fast each car is.


Still I'm betting on a ferrari 1-2 this weekend. McLaren will be fast, but I'm wondering how happy their car will be jumping across the kerbs this time around, considering it's a pretty stiff car. Ferrari are probably the top team in terms of getting traction outta the corners, which key at Monza. Not sure exactly what tyre's are being run this weekend. Probably super soft and medium, which again will play to Ferrari, since as the trend goes, Ferrari aren't as happy on the harder tyre's.
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By smokin
#213139
Personally I never get why people compare speed trap's between teams. They're fairly misleading tbh

If McLaren are the fastest in a straight line, surely they'll just put on enough downforce to match Red Bull in the middle sector. Whilst Red Bull could be running less wing so they're not eaten alive down the straights. Everyone could simply be running what they think is optimum, skewing our picture of how fast each car is.


Still I'm betting on a ferrari 1-2 this weekend. McLaren will be fast, but I'm wondering how happy their car will be jumping across the kerbs this time around, considering it's a pretty stiff car. Ferrari are probably the top team in terms of getting traction outta the corners, which key at Monza. Not sure exactly what tyre's are being run this weekend. Probably super soft and medium, which again will play to Ferrari, since as the trend goes, Ferrari aren't as happy on the harder tyre's.

I think 'wishful thinking' describes your bet. I'd save my money or put it on a car which likes long, fast straights. RBR and Ferrari have backtracked on their flexi-wings to pass the pre-Spa test and may have to make further retrograde steps to get through the stiffer (pun intended) tests at Monza. McLaren and Renault with their effective F-ducts will be at the front and Red Bull are just fast in any trim.

I also hope that for your sake that 'this weekend' was a slip of the pen or you're definitely on a losing bet!
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By f1ea
#213140
Personally I never get why people compare speed trap's between teams. They're fairly misleading tbh

If McLaren are the fastest in a straight line, surely they'll just put on enough downforce to match Red Bull in the middle sector. Whilst Red Bull could be running less wing so they're not eaten alive down the straights. Everyone could simply be running what they think is optimum, skewing our picture of how fast each car is.


Still I'm betting on a ferrari 1-2 this weekend. McLaren will be fast, but I'm wondering how happy their car will be jumping across the kerbs this time around, considering it's a pretty stiff car. Ferrari are probably the top team in terms of getting traction outta the corners, which key at Monza. Not sure exactly what tyre's are being run this weekend. Probably super soft and medium, which again will play to Ferrari, since as the trend goes, Ferrari aren't as happy on the harder tyre's.

I think 'wishful thinking' describes your bet. I'd save my money or put it on a car which likes long, fast straights. RBR and Ferrari have backtracked on their flexi-wings to pass the pre-Spa test and may have to make further retrograde steps to get through the stiffer (pun intended) tests at Monza. McLaren and Renault with their effective F-ducts will be at the front and Red Bull are just fast in any trim.

I also hope that for your sake that 'this weekend' was a slip of the pen or you're definitely on a losing bet!


Don't think the Spa test made thagt big of a difference in the front wings. Much more possibly RB and Ferrari ran a lower downforce configuration, which meant perhaps not such a wacky front wing or a stiffer floor; also the track was considerably smoother than Hungary so the wings would have looked stiffer as the cars werent as bouncy... the test for Monza, however, would/should backtrack or at least bind them a bit. We'll see.....

As for Ferrari being the best at Monza... hmmm no idea.
I'm thinking their engine issue is prob more important. If they are able to run a new engine for Monza then they can be very strong. If they have to be conservative, then maybe the merc engines will have the edge. As seen in Canada, both Mclaren and Ferrari were real strong; with Mclaren having the signifficant advantage in Canada's straight because of the Fduct... but if they dont run it here and Ferrari has good suspension, maybe its not so clear cut.

Simple thinking, Ferrari should be very strong. But the engine issue has got to be taken into acct.

Hopefully its not another Spa whipping ! :irked:
#213146
Personally I never get why people compare speed trap's between teams. They're fairly misleading tbh

If McLaren are the fastest in a straight line, surely they'll just put on enough downforce to match Red Bull in the middle sector. Whilst Red Bull could be running less wing so they're not eaten alive down the straights. Everyone could simply be running what they think is optimum, skewing our picture of how fast each car is.


Still I'm betting on a ferrari 1-2 this weekend. McLaren will be fast, but I'm wondering how happy their car will be jumping across the kerbs this time around, considering it's a pretty stiff car. Ferrari are probably the top team in terms of getting traction outta the corners, which key at Monza. Not sure exactly what tyre's are being run this weekend. Probably super soft and medium, which again will play to Ferrari, since as the trend goes, Ferrari aren't as happy on the harder tyre's.

I think 'wishful thinking' describes your bet. I'd save my money or put it on a car which likes long, fast straights. RBR and Ferrari have backtracked on their flexi-wings to pass the pre-Spa test and may have to make further retrograde steps to get through the stiffer (pun intended) tests at Monza. McLaren and Renault with their effective F-ducts will be at the front and Red Bull are just fast in any trim.

I also hope that for your sake that 'this weekend' was a slip of the pen or you're definitely on a losing bet!


Renault aren't running their F duct in Monza.

I'm still waiting for McLaren to state if they'll be running it....they should be, since the car concept is built around it. Your first paragraph is spot on though.
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By ivey
#213152
I actually don't get it why McLaren might not be running f-duct, doesen't it have a big influence on the performance?
#213159
I actually don't get it why McLaren might not be running f-duct, doesen't it have a big influence on the performance?


The f-ducts is used to stall the wing during high straight line speed. In Monza since so little downforce is required, the wing is already at a very low downforce setting so there's nothing for the f-duct to do. So it's probably better for them to lighten the car by whatever the weight and remove the aerodynamic drag of the f-duct scoop to make the car faster.
#213184
The f-ducts is used to stall the wing during high straight line speed. In Monza since so little downforce is required, the wing is already at a very low downforce setting so there's nothing for the f-duct to do. So it's probably better for them to lighten the car by whatever the weight and remove the aerodynamic drag of the f-duct scoop to make the car faster.

But on the flip side of that argument; with the F-Duct, teams can run more downforce for faster cornering while having very little drag on the long straights!
#213186
The f-ducts is used to stall the wing during high straight line speed. In Monza since so little downforce is required, the wing is already at a very low downforce setting so there's nothing for the f-duct to do. So it's probably better for them to lighten the car by whatever the weight and remove the aerodynamic drag of the f-duct scoop to make the car faster.

But on the flip side of that argument; with the F-Duct, teams can run more downforce for faster cornering while having very little drag on the long straights!


That would be the call, if McLaren feel they don't need the additional downforce in Monza.
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By Jensonb
#213191
To clarify, McLaen is taking both an F-Duct and an F-Duct-free spec of the top bodywork to Monza and will evaluate both.
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By Hansy
#213216
To clarify, McLaen is taking both an F-Duct and an F-Duct-free spec of the top bodywork to Monza and will evaluate both.


Have they ever tested this year's car without the F-Duct? If they did, how was its performance?
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By Jensonb
#213221
To clarify, McLaen is taking both an F-Duct and an F-Duct-free spec of the top bodywork to Monza and will evaluate both.


Have they ever tested this year's car without the F-Duct? If they did, how was its performance?

I don't know off the top of my head if they're run it at a race in Practice without the F-Duct, I believe not though. If memory serves, the car appeared at the first pre-season test without the device and performed reasonably, but that was long enough ago to be irrelevant.
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