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[vaptin]

Either enforce the rule; retroactively if necessary or scrap the rule... it just makes the FIA a laughing stock if they don't enforce the rule, token fines are not going to appease the fans that this rule was brought in to keep happy, fans are not stupid, they can see the FIA are doing nothing to punish blatant team orders, despite going through the motions. The FIA need clear rules, if you do this; you will be punished. In laws if you punch someone, it's assault, "I didn't hit him that hard" is not a valid defence.

It effects the punishment at least,

[smokin]

All of what you said would be appliable IF the FIA itself believed in the rule, which they don't. It's obvious they think the rule is not that useful.
Even if they thought the rule was right, it's impossible to prove anyway guilty of breaking that rule, which is pathetic for a rule.
So I'll stand by what I said: they'll change the rule.

I don't think it matters whether the FIA believe in a rule. If it's in the regulations it's a rule but I agree with what you said.

[Flux]

your all arguing if ferrari will be found guilty of the crime, they already have been by the stewards. the hearing is set for 1. determining the punishment 2. bringing the sport into disrepute

punishment = a fine most likely
sport into disrepute = another fine on top

i doubt its gonna be anything major, will make the fia look foolish for not being stricter about less obvious situation in the past and as said before in this thread it sets a awful precedent for future incidents

[smokin]

Either enforce the rule; retroactively if necessary or scrap the rule... it just makes the FIA a laughing stock if they don't enforce the rule, token fines are not going to appease the fans that this rule was brought in to keep happy, fans are not stupid, they can see the FIA are doing nothing to punish blatant team orders, despite going through the motions. The FIA need clear rules, if you do this; you will be punished. In laws if you punch someone, it's assault, "I didn't hit him that hard" is not a valid defence.

Retroactive enforcement - can of worms...

[madbrad]

If I were Mr. Ferrari I would just assert that we did not tell Massa to move over, we just told him Alonso was faster. Massa did it all of his own accord. That's not against the rules. Neither is an agreement between drivers. The spirit of the law was broken and it woul dbe nice to see punishment but I think the council's hands are tied. Besides, they never punished McLaren for the times they did it.

[The Immortal Dragon]

All of what you said would be appliable IF the FIA itself believed in the rule, which they don't. It's obvious they think the rule is not that useful.
Even if they thought the rule was right, it's impossible to prove anyway guilty of breaking that rule, which is pathetic for a rule.
So I'll stand by what I said: they'll change the rule.

I don't think it matters whether the FIA believe in a rule. If it's in the regulations it's a rule but I agree with what you said.

I think it matters if people want them to enforce the rule.
They can't enforce a rule they don't really think is right.

[vaptin]

If I were Mr. Ferrari I would just assert that we did not tell Massa to move over, we just told him Alonso was faster. Massa did it all of his own accord. That's not against the rules. Neither is an agreement between drivers. The spirit of the law was broken and it woul dbe nice to see punishment but I think the council's hands are tied. Besides, they never punished McLaren for the times they did it.

Don't mention the M word!

Immortal dragon - if the FIA don't believe in the rule, they should change it, shouldn't effect enforcement to my knowledge. Of course, those who make the rules, and those who enforce and judge upon the rules should be independent of each other but we are talking the FIA here.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Immortal dragon - if the FIA don't believe in the rule, they should change it, shouldn't effect enforcement to my knowledge. Of course, those who make the rules, and those who enforce and judge upon the rules should be independent of each other but we are talking the FIA here.

Yeah but if they change it, then they will not want to punish Ferrari, I guess.

(and yeah, it's still the FIA..)

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Mad Max sez:

"[A] fine should be followed with sporting sanctions."




I just don't like that Ferrari can be penalised twice for the same offence. It's just not cricket.

[smokin]

That's torn it. The FIA can't be seen to be agreeing with Max. Slap on the wrist it is.

[myownalias]

Either enforce the rule; retroactively if necessary or scrap the rule... it just makes the FIA a laughing stock if they don't enforce the rule, token fines are not going to appease the fans that this rule was brought in to keep happy, fans are not stupid, they can see the FIA are doing nothing to punish blatant team orders, despite going through the motions. The FIA need clear rules, if you do this; you will be punished. In laws if you punch someone, it's assault, "I didn't hit him that hard" is not a valid defence.

Retroactive enforcement - can of worms...

Yes, but the FIA need to be seen as taking team orders seriously, if not just scrap the rule and be done with it.

It'll never been enforced, the FIA are as useless as ever!!!

[racechick]

If I were Mr. Ferrari I would just assert that we did not tell Massa to move over, we just told him Alonso was faster. Massa did it all of his own accord. That's not against the rules. Neither is an agreement between drivers. The spirit of the law was broken and it woul dbe nice to see punishment but I think the council's hands are tied. Besides, they never punished McLaren for the times they did it.

But then Mr. Ferrari would be lying and lying is not allowed. Why bring Mclaren into this? McLaren have received plenty of excesive punishment in their time for doing things other teams do, now Ferrari have broken the rule and its their turn to take the rap.

[Big Azza]

Formula One cannot be classified as a Team Sport with only two drivers in my Opinion. It is not like beach volleyball. I think if Formula One is intended to be a Team allow them to have more than 2 cars. Give 'em 4.

Or, we could take away the WDC altogether...

Ferrari had no right to mess with WDC in that race. A 1-2 was already guaranteed, so maximum points for the WCC, the competition Ferrari participate in.

[The Immortal Dragon]

Formula One cannot be classified as a Team Sport with only two drivers in my Opinion. It is not like beach volleyball. I think if Formula One is intended to be a Team allow them to have more than 2 cars. Give 'em 4.

4 cars would be far too much from an economical point of view.

And of course it is a team sport, there are teams!
The teams pay the drivers, the teams have the sponsors, the teams do the marketing and the teams spend money (and gain them, but that's different ) to develop their car all the time in all the possible ways, they pay the engineers and the mechanics and put up the enteirtainment with their two cars. (and many other things I surely forgot!)

How can it not be a team sport?


EDIT: if they will enforce the rule and/or punish Ferrari, then what will happen towards the end of the season?
Are you telling me that there will be no team orders in the last couple of races? I don't believe that, honestly.

[vaptin]

Either enforce the rule; retroactively if necessary or scrap the rule... it just makes the FIA a laughing stock if they don't enforce the rule, token fines are not going to appease the fans that this rule was brought in to keep happy, fans are not stupid, they can see the FIA are doing nothing to punish blatant team orders, despite going through the motions. The FIA need clear rules, if you do this; you will be punished. In laws if you punch someone, it's assault, "I didn't hit him that hard" is not a valid defence.

Retroactive enforcement - can of worms...

Yes, but the FIA need to be seen as taking team orders seriously, if not just scrap the rule and be done with it.

It'll never been enforced, the FIA are as useless as ever!!!

The FIA will still look stupid if they retroactively hand out punishments, all Ferrari will do is point out that the FIA did nothing at the time.