FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[bud]

Merc are appealing but as we saw in Spa 08 you cant appeal a drive through even a retrospective one, which is what Schumi got with a time penalty. So this result will stand.

I thought Toro Rosso had previously proved that you can with a successful appeal of a time-penalty (making the Spa situation even more ridiculous)?

I wasnt aware of that, seems Spa was even more of a farce then, but lets not go there

[AKR]

I'm noticing a lot negativity here towards Ferrari and Alonso over what Schumi did. How is this Ferrari and Alonso's fault that Schumi was penalised. As a Ferrari tifosa I want the decision to go Ferrari's way, but this matter has nothing to do with Ferrari. Had the car Schumi passed on that last corner been say a McLaren, the outcome of the stewards would of been the same. After Schumi did his not so popular move, Ferrari made no protest, fact is it not? It was the stewards lead by Damon Hill who probably already decided they would peanlise Schumacher for his move. If Hill has a grudge against Schumacher and that in anyway influenced the outcome, once again what has it to do with Alonso and Ferrari? A lot of people here are making Ferrari look bad. Take the dumb FIA jokes again. Seriously it is bullpoo. The stewards alone decided to penalise Schumacher without the input or protest of Ferrari nor anyone else. And if the FIA were always on Ferrari's side, why did Alonso get a drive through penalty for the jumping the start in Malesia? Can any smarty pants anser that. Well you do not need bother as it is simply clear. There are no special favours and Alonso got punished like anyone else would of in Malesia. So if the stewards got it wrong at Monaco, curse them and Damon Hill, not Ferrari as it has nothing to do with Ferrari. They are just the beneficiories of the decesion and I support it only because it favours the team I support. Weather the stewards were right or wrong is another matter and once again it is between them and Schumacher/Mercedes only so leave Ferrari and Alonso alone please.

[myownalias]

I don't understand why Damon Hill is being singled out for this penalty; he was not solely responsible for the punishment; and who is blaming Alonso/Ferrari? The bottom line is that the FIA rulebook has failed again; move the rule back to no overtaking before the finish line and this problem would not have happened. Everyone in F1 thought that Schumacher's move was legitimate; it's stupid to have a different rule for the final lap; the safety car pulled in so everyone assumed they were racing again.

[AKR]

I don't understand why Damon Hill is being singled out for this penalty; he was not solely responsible for the punishment; and who is blaming Alonso/Ferrari? The bottom line is that the FIA rulebook has failed again; move the rule back to no overtaking before the finish line and this problem would not have happened. Everyone in F1 thought that Schumacher's move was legitimate; it's stupid to have a different rule for the final lap; the safety car pulled in so everyone assumed they were racing again.

Who is blaming Ferrari. Well take a look at bud's stupid avatar and all the people encouraging all the Ferrari blasphemy!

[AKR]

That's f***ing bullpoo! f*** you FIA. That was soooo f***ing fair from Schumi. Hope Mercedes f***ing sue the f***ing FIA. They better f***ing reverse that decision otherwise I'll f***ing sue them

Actually they better not reverse it. But then again if they did, at least Mercedes and Schumi are German, so its not all that bad. I would of been completely angry had say Lewis Hamilton and McLaren pulled the same stunt on Alonso.

[vaptin]

I don't understand why Damon Hill is being singled out for this penalty; he was not solely responsible for the punishment; and who is blaming Alonso/Ferrari? The bottom line is that the FIA rulebook has failed again; move the rule back to no overtaking before the finish line and this problem would not have happened. Everyone in F1 thought that Schumacher's move was legitimate; it's stupid to have a different rule for the final lap; the safety car pulled in so everyone assumed they were racing again.

Who is blaming Ferrari. Well take a look at bud's stupid avatar and all the people encouraging all the Ferrari blasphemy!

Bud's avatar is becuase the rule got changed.

Also, Ferrari had told Massa and Alonso they weren't allowed to overtake on the last lap.

[FerrariFan63]

What the rules are clearly saying are that if the safety car is out at the start of the final lap, the race is effectively over. The wording makes that extremely obvious.

No, the rule does not say that. The rule only applies in the situation where the race is going to end under the safety car. If the stewards decide to end the safety car period on the last lap, then the race is not ending under the safety car, and the rule does not apply. You then get the opportunity for two entirely different situations, where in one of these situations the rule applies, and the other situation the rule does not.

[texasmr2]

I cannot fathom why this debate is still going on as the rule is as clear as day .

[stonemonkey]

What the rules are clearly saying are that if the safety car is out at the start of the final lap, the race is effectively over. The wording makes that extremely obvious.

No, the rule does not say that. The rule only applies in the situation where the race is going to end under the safety car. If the stewards decide to end the safety car period on the last lap, then the race is not ending under the safety car, and the rule does not apply. You then get the opportunity for two entirely different situations, where in one of these situations the rule applies, and the other situation the rule does not.

Exactly, the ambiguity in this situation is in the message sent to the teams that the safety car was pitting but not specifying the reason for it pitting and there is no rule stating that the safety car will not pit due to clear track conditions on the final lap.

And, when would a green flag ever be shown anywhere on the track during safety car conditions?

[FerrariFan63]

I cannot fathom why this debate is still going on as the rule is as clear as day .

Because the rule says:

If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

It's that really big if at the start of the rule which makes things unclear.

Reading all the rules in section 40 of the regulations is IMHO vital to understand why the situation at the end of the race (note: NOT the rules) was ambiguous. I.e. look at rule 40.11. The green flags should not have been waving if the race was ending under the safety car. Neither should there be a message SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP on the timing screens. Did either of these happen? I can't remember for sure, but I think the evidence Brawn showed the BBC showed that both these things happened, the green flags and the message.

Stonemonkey has just posted as I was preparing this, and also mentions the ambiguity as to whether the race was ending under the safety car or not.

[7UpJordan]

I cannot fathom why this debate is still going on as the rule is as clear as day .

Everybody loves unclear rules that cause controversy, without them the universe would cease to exist.

[MAD MAX]

IMHO, the s.c should have stayed out and crossed the finish line ahead of the cars, that way we wouldn't be debating this. I felt it was a legitimate move by schuey and the green flags at the last corner were being waved. If I was Ross, I'd feel a little peeved by this

[texasmr2]

All I'm reading is blah blah blah and 'IN IMHO' while the rule is clearly written. Can anyone honestly refute the written rule without just saying 'IMHO' ??

[stonemonkey]

All I'm reading is blah blah blah and 'IN IMHO' while the rule is clearly written. Can anyone honestly refute the written rule without just saying 'IMHO' ??

So, in your opinion green flags can be waved during safety car conditions?

[Gaz]

To be fair its not just the rule thats abit squiffy, its the punishment, Schui deserved those points.

They should be able to demote drivers for cases like this.