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[darwin dali]

It still wouldn't be right because of cheating - you can't talk that away.

[racechick]

cheating, spying espionage it has been going on in F! forever. Listening in to other teams radio conversations,cutting in on car radios with false messages. getting cameras to photograph cars in the pitlane, actually hiring real spies to go in and steal documents and then using them on cars, the list goes on and on and on. yet only now, against McLaren and instigated by Ferrari, at a time when all sorts of troubkle brews in Ferraris backyard, do the FIA act. Oh and Ferrari also happen to be loosing-badly

[darwin dali]

Don't know whether you could call 6 vs. 7 wins so far as losing badly - as in most of your posts, you seem to be very familiar with the terms 'exaggeration' and 'out of proportion'

[bud]

Don't know whether you could call 6 vs. 7 wins so far as losing badly - as in most of your posts, you seem to be very familiar with the terms 'exaggeration' and 'out of proportion'

you can talk!

DD you just have to look to Italy to know how Ferrari are going, they are calling for Schumachers return or even getting Alonso in their car. You see if Ferrari arent winning the tifosi blame the driver but if they are winning its always because of their beloved car just being too god damn good! The fact they are talking about possible driver lineup changes at Ferrari would suggest they are losing badly!

[darwin dali]

Well, I'm NOT a tifosi! And I maintain that it is not objective to say they're losing badly because logic says they're not.

[bmwpower]

Really think about it for a second, if McLaren get disqualified, then say kimi wins, can you honestly say he deserved to win

How about McLaren being found guilty on Thursday, really think about for a second, can you honestly say they deserved to win??

[ferraribird]

The Carlos Tevez saga that lasted the entire summer over West Ham cheating their way to survival using illegal players and then blatantly lying about it, being caught in posession a third party agreement (which should instantly get them points deducted, now this is very different than McLaren being caught in posession of the Ferrari dossier) and getting a lame fine instead of a points deduction because it was "so late in the season" and my club Sheffield United got relegated as a result of West Ham cheating. I'm not too bothered now though, I didn't really enjoy being in the Premiership anyway.

If the FIA were dealing with the Tevez saga, they wouldn't have given West Ham mercy, they'd have probably banned them from competitive football for a season unlike the lame pathetic officials in charge of the Premier League who are afraid to punish "big boys".

I know next to nothing about football. Daniel Beckham?

the real losers will also be the fans of f1. seeing a championship with no maclaren or ferrari would be a commercial disaster as i doubt i would buy anything with NH involved

Yes, that's true. Tomorrow's outcome, whichever way it goes, is not exactly going to be a triumph for the sport.

and DD you just have to look to Italy to know how Ferrari are going, they are calling for Schumachers return or even getting Alonso in their car. you see if Ferrari arent winning the tifosi blame the driver but if they are winning its always because of their beloved car just being too god damn good! the fact they are talking about possible driver lineup changes at Ferrari would suggest they are losing badly!

Bud's right. It's the combination of car and driver and TEAM. Even MS couldn't have pulled that wreck that Massa was driving at Monza to the finish line. I have no objection to MS returning to racing - it would be interesting to throw him into the mix with Hamilton proving such a hotshot driver as well.

show them all who the real champion is...the fastest driver on the track.

ABSOLUTELY!

[cap-dude]

Well Ferrari have actually been faster this year, it may not seem it since they're losing. but the only thing bringing them down is poor reliabilty, and ultimatly thats where McLaren is better, and why at the minute they are deserving winners.

But if Ferrari actual make a come back, they desevre it even more

[McLaren Fan]

Well Ferrari have actually been faster this year, it may not seem it since they're losing. but the only thing bringing them down is poor reliabilty, and ultimatly thats where McLaren is better, and why at the minute they are deserving winners.

But if Ferrari actual make a come back, they desevre it even more

I have to disagree. McLaren have been faster than Ferrari at some circuits and visa versa. If Ferrari had less reliability problems, they would still be behind. Ultimately reliability is a big part of Formula One, hence, one of the big reasons why McLaren have been so poor in recent years as Mercedes' engines were suspect. Take 2005: the car was fast but fragile. Although sad and extremely frustrating, Renault did the best job all year and got the basics right: a pretty fast car that can last the distance. If another driver pulls put, they will be there to pick up the win.

[cap-dude]

True, but ferrari where faster on most of the tracks, but both McLaren drivers have finished every race, were massa and kimi have not.
I mean look at what went wrong,
australia - massa engine probelm
Spain - Kimi electrical
Monaco - Suspected Sabotage
germany - Kimi electrical again
Italy - Massa Suspension.
Not mention, massa probelms in Britan and Canada, plus Kimis accident in Monaco.
I'm pretty sure if all those never happened the points would be very different

[racechick]

Italians are i think more moved by passion than logic.
Massa has said he now has no realistic chance of the championship. Kimmi has a suspected broken collar bone, They've just been beaten by a McLaren 1/2 on a high speed(Ferrari) track at their home gp. Ferrari will not be over the moon about this. Of the two teams that could win , I say again Ferrari are loosing badly.
Hey no worries though, tomorrow the FIA may arrive, as the knights in shinning armour....on a prancing horse.

[ferraribird]

Italians are i think more moved by passion than logic.
Massa has said he now has no realistic chance of the championship. Kimmi has a suspected broken collar bone, They've just been beaten by a McLaren 1/2 on a high speed(Ferrari) track at their home gp. Ferrari will not be over the moon about this. Of the two teams that could win , I say again Ferrari are loosing badly.
Hey no worries though, tomorrow the FIA may arrive, as the knights in shinning armour....on a prancing horse.

Yep, like the Crusaders in Palestine!

[racechick]

Well, I'm NOT a tifosi! And I maintain that it is not objective to say they're losing badly because logic says they're not.

Sorry, last post was in response to DD's post. Keep getting the pages muddled up

[racechick]

Italians are i think more moved by passion than logic.
Massa has said he now has no realistic chance of the championship. Kimmi has a suspected broken collar bone, They've just been beaten by a McLaren 1/2 on a high speed(Ferrari) track at their home gp. Ferrari will not be over the moon about this. Of the two teams that could win , I say again Ferrari are loosing badly.
Hey no worries though, tomorrow the FIA may arrive, as the knights in shinning armour....on a prancing horse.

Yep, like the Crusaders in Palestine!

And look at the mess we left the middle east in with our meddling! But that opens up a whole other can of worms. There are enough worms being discussed already so we better drop that thread.

[nikon133]

Aw BMW, no subpeondas, no lawsuits, no police investigation, no cheating, no cry babies, no dates with the World Council. Unfortunately, next year they will be a force but not this year.

And as soon as they became a real force, Ferrari will dig something on them. Or plant something. Mark my words