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[csrracer]

[Michael Schumacher outclasses Hamilton, so there is no point making these lowly comparisons. .

He outclasses him in cheating thats for sure!

Driving? Lewis has had two years. How many did Michael have 12? 15? more? Hardly a fair comparison.

Oh please, spare us the juvenile comments.

Well we are talking about F1 aren't we? They are both F1 drivers, not a tap dancer and a professional kleptomaniac. Hamilton's a talented bloke, maybe a bit of an ego trip, but at this level in sports, most are. He lied, ok, I don't really care, seems like more of an in the moment thing he blurted out rather than planning a big lie for 2 months.

That being said, while the game goes, Schumacher is better than Hamilton unless proven otherwise (by Hamilton himself)

"he's a cheat, she's a cheat, they're a cheat" - just doesn't cut it.

Nope.Sorry. You've completely lost me there

Don't worry, just take it as this for now:

Schumacher (7 Titles) - Hamilton (1 Title) - > And since they are both in the set of F1, and the subset of F1 Drivers, it leads many to believe they're quite comparable.

I think the point is yes Schumacher won 7 titles, but he was no saint either, he was caught cheating also.
and yes Hamilton has only 1 title but it's after only 2 years. The only way to make an even comparison is to take a look at what Schumacher did in his first 2 years. I think it's a little early in Hamilton's career to say he's as great as Schumacher. but to think that lie-gate has tarnished his potential to be as great as Schumacher after 12 years is

[Jamie]

I think Schumacher came across to the F1 world in a positive light, people forgave him for the mistakes he made thru winning the title. But Lewis is a different ball game

[SAS88]

[Michael Schumacher outclasses Hamilton, so there is no point making these lowly comparisons. .

He outclasses him in cheating thats for sure!

Driving? Lewis has had two years. How many did Michael have 12? 15? more? Hardly a fair comparison.

Oh please, spare us the juvenile comments.

Well we are talking about F1 aren't we? They are both F1 drivers, not a tap dancer and a professional kleptomaniac. Hamilton's a talented bloke, maybe a bit of an ego trip, but at this level in sports, most are. He lied, ok, I don't really care, seems like more of an in the moment thing he blurted out rather than planning a big lie for 2 months.

That being said, while the game goes, Schumacher is better than Hamilton unless proven otherwise (by Hamilton himself)

"he's a cheat, she's a cheat, they're a cheat" - just doesn't cut it.

Nope.Sorry. You've completely lost me there

Don't worry, just take it as this for now:

Schumacher (7 Titles) - Hamilton (1 Title) - > And since they are both in the set of F1, and the subset of F1 Drivers, it leads many to believe they're quite comparable.

I think the point is yes Schumacher won 7 titles, but he was no saint either, he was caught cheating also.
and yes Hamilton has only 1 title but it's after only 2 years. The only way to make an even comparison is to take a look at what Schumacher did in his first 2 years. I think it's a little early in Hamilton's career to say he's as great as Schumacher. but to think that lie-gate has tarnished his potential to be as great as Schumacher after 12 years is

I agree, I never said any of the sort though; that the lie-gate has tarnished his potential. At this stage no one can assert Hamilton is better than Schumacher, as to what happens years down the line, let's just wait and see.

[csrracer]

I think Schumacher came across to the F1 world in a positive light, people forgave him for the mistakes he made thru winning the title. But Lewis is a different ball game

So you have an ability to see the Future, Cool do you know the powerball numbers this week?
Hamilton is just starting his 3rd year in F1 it's a little early to say Hamilton won't be forgiven when you look back in 12 years. Plus the Italians don't mind cheating as long as they're benefitting from it....

A brief MS cheating history
1994 Car was not to legal specs...
1995 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Hill)
1997 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Villeneuve) (thrown out of championship for this one
2006 Ruined his nearest points competitor's Qualifying run (Alonso Monaco)

In the last 3 situations he lied to the stewards, saying he lost control of his car...
Schumacher the master of car control loosing control of his car?

[racechick]

I think Schumacher came across to the F1 world in a positive light, people forgave him for the mistakes he made thru winning the title. But Lewis is a different ball game

So you have an ability to see the Future, Cool do you know the powerball numbers this week?
Hamilton is just starting his 3rd year in F1 it's a little early to say Hamilton won't be forgiven when you look back in 12 years. Plus the Italians don't mind cheating as long as they're benefitting from it....

A brief MS cheating history
1994 Car was not to legal specs...
1995 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Hill)
1997 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Villeneuve) (thrown out of championship for this one
2006 Ruined his nearest points competitor's Qualifying run (Alonso Monaco)

In the last 3 situations he lied to the stewards, saying he lost control of his car...
Schumacher the master of car control loosing control of his car?

Yeah. Thats the sort of thing i meant

[Jamie]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

[csrracer]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

Cheating is cheating, In your eyes Schumacher can be forgiven because he had a great career for 12 years, and he was "better at cheating" But you can't consider Hamilton to be a good driver because his team told him to lie and he lied in the start of his 3rd year?
How can you compare MS 12 years against LH 2 ? the only whay I can see to do it is compare MS first 2 years , Hamilton 1 WDC Schumacher 0. Sorry Hamilton wins
Hey let's compare Active driver's that beat Schumacher....
Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..
Raikonnen: Hamilton beat him in a slower car....
That's my theory now please explain to me how you can come to the conclusion that "Schumacher's a more dominant driver". Vettel's good no doubt but right now his car is faster than Hamilton's.

If you want to stick to your better cheater theory, at least Hamilton's lie didn't put anyone at risk on the race track.

[Jensonb]

Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..

[Denthúl]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

Cheating is cheating, In your eyes Schumacher can be forgiven because he had a great career for 12 years, and he was "better at cheating" But you can't consider Hamilton to be a good driver because his team told him to lie and he lied in the start of his 3rd year?
How can you compare MS 12 years against LH 2 ? the only whay I can see to do it is compare MS first 2 years , Hamilton 1 WDC Schumacher 0. Sorry Hamilton wins
Hey let's compare Active driver's that beat Schumacher....
Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..
Raikonnen: Hamilton beat him in a slower car....
That's my theory now please explain to me how you can come to the conclusion that "Schumacher's a more dominant driver". Vettel's good no doubt but right now his car is faster than Hamilton's.

You can't make that comparison. Schumacher wasn't in a championship-contending car for his first year, wherease Hamilton was. The first year Schumacher was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship. In the second year he was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship.

[csrracer]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

Cheating is cheating, In your eyes Schumacher can be forgiven because he had a great career for 12 years, and he was "better at cheating" But you can't consider Hamilton to be a good driver because his team told him to lie and he lied in the start of his 3rd year?
How can you compare MS 12 years against LH 2 ? the only whay I can see to do it is compare MS first 2 years , Hamilton 1 WDC Schumacher 0. Sorry Hamilton wins
Hey let's compare Active driver's that beat Schumacher....
Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..
Raikonnen: Hamilton beat him in a slower car....
That's my theory now please explain to me how you can come to the conclusion that "Schumacher's a more dominant driver". Vettel's good no doubt but right now his car is faster than Hamilton's.

You can't make that comparison. Schumacher wasn't in a championship-contending car for his first year, wherease Hamilton was. The first year Schumacher was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship. In the second year he was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship.

You are going over his career, and that's my point. You can't compare Shcumacher to Hamilton,until Hamilton's career is over. He may be out by the end of the year who knows. If you go by stats alone you would think Button is a crap driver, But put him in a strong car and there's no doubt about his ability.

[SAS88]

I think Schumacher came across to the F1 world in a positive light, people forgave him for the mistakes he made thru winning the title. But Lewis is a different ball game

So you have an ability to see the Future, Cool do you know the powerball numbers this week?
Hamilton is just starting his 3rd year in F1 it's a little early to say Hamilton won't be forgiven when you look back in 12 years. Plus the Italians don't mind cheating as long as they're benefitting from it....

A brief MS cheating history
1994 Car was not to legal specs...
1995 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Hill)
1997 Ran into his nearest points competitor as he was being passed (Villeneuve) (thrown out of championship for this one
2006 Ruined his nearest points competitor's Qualifying run (Alonso Monaco)

In the last 3 situations he lied to the stewards, saying he lost control of his car...
Schumacher the master of car control loosing control of his car?

Erm, I wasn't aware that Schumacher was a qualified techie? Then again I think I saw him wandering around taking the shift of the 3rd technician in the last 8 hours prior to the race. All that maths and physics he learnt in tertiary education he put straight into practice

There have been other drivers guilty of "running" into other drivers, *cough* senna,prost,montoya *cough*. Giving you the benefit of those 3 - 4 incidents you state, it doesn't in anyway take away from him winning 7 titles. Fine let's discount the 1995 world championship, that leaves him with 6.

I won't bother with 1997 since he was disqualified, and he didn't win 2006. So giving you the benefit of the doubt he has 6 world titles, and let's minus 1 WDC for tax purposes. 5.

I won't deny most of what Schumacher has attempted over the years, as for 1994, I can't really accuse him, he doesn't design nor fit illegal fuel valves into cars, as far as he was concerned, he was in the car and racing, not fiddling with the fuel meters.

Rant away my friend, rant away.

[SAS88]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

Cheating is cheating, In your eyes Schumacher can be forgiven because he had a great career for 12 years, and he was "better at cheating" But you can't consider Hamilton to be a good driver because his team told him to lie and he lied in the start of his 3rd year?
How can you compare MS 12 years against LH 2 ? the only whay I can see to do it is compare MS first 2 years , Hamilton 1 WDC Schumacher 0. Sorry Hamilton wins
Hey let's compare Active driver's that beat Schumacher....
Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..
Raikonnen: Hamilton beat him in a slower car....
That's my theory now please explain to me how you can come to the conclusion that "Schumacher's a more dominant driver". Vettel's good no doubt but right now his car is faster than Hamilton's.

You can't make that comparison. Schumacher wasn't in a championship-contending car for his first year, wherease Hamilton was. The first year Schumacher was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship. In the second year he was in a championship-contending car, he won the championship.

You are going over his career, and that's my point. You can't compare Shcumacher to Hamilton,until Hamilton's career is over. He may be out by the end of the year who knows. If you go by stats alone you would think Button is a crap driver, But put him in a strong car and there's no doubt about his ability.

That remains to be seen, 2 races doesn't cut it, not whilst other teams have been having technical problems. At the same time, with more strong performances he could probably clinch the title, wouldn't be surprised.

[SAS88]

Okay. So if you cheat on your wife and get away with it you wouldn't do it 3 or 4 more times? If you say no.... Don't hate the player, hate the game if Schumacher was smart enough to get away with it then Kudos to him otherwise Hammy made an obvious f*** up while they can hear his conversation, that is stupid cheating. But at least Ferrari had the brains not to lose an important team member along the way. McLaren are in a dark and gloomy stage at the moment. But while in comparison Schumi is the dominant driver. I believe Vettel is a more talented driver than Lewis, from the pure fact of he has a crap car and can bring it 1 win and has came 3rd in qually for the 2races. He is doing fantastic and shouldn't have anything took away from him. He is better than Hammy.

Cheating is cheating, In your eyes Schumacher can be forgiven because he had a great career for 12 years, and he was "better at cheating" But you can't consider Hamilton to be a good driver because his team told him to lie and he lied in the start of his 3rd year?
How can you compare MS 12 years against LH 2 ? the only whay I can see to do it is compare MS first 2 years , Hamilton 1 WDC Schumacher 0. Sorry Hamilton wins
Hey let's compare Active driver's that beat Schumacher....
Alonso: Hamilton was faster in the same car..
Raikonnen: Hamilton beat him in a slower car....
That's my theory now please explain to me how you can come to the conclusion that "Schumacher's a more dominant driver". Vettel's good no doubt but right now his car is faster than Hamilton's.

If you want to stick to your better cheater theory, at least Hamilton's lie didn't put anyone at risk on the race track.

3 - 4 incidents = career of cheating? Failed logic. Schumacher doesn't have to be forgiven for his gimmicks on the track, however it doesn't negate the rest of his career. Might as well argue with a brick wall.

Of course you can make a comparison regardless of the years, it wouldn't be an ACCURATE comparison though depending on who exactly you are a comparing. Using your erroneous logic, no one can exactly be compared, oh we can't compare Senna and Schumacher, Senna did 10 years, and Schumacher 15+, Senna also died, and Schumacher isn't dead! yada yada yada (insert more irrelevant variables here)

As far as I see, and most other people see and the official statistics see. Schumacher is on 7, Hamilton is on 1. You want to create your own rules, go ahead, start your own break-away group, ask FOTA if you could start your new comparisons mechanism.

As for your driver theory, Montoya also beat Schumacher a few times, but that same Montoya was beaten by Barrichello on several occassions, so Barrichello is better than Schumacher now?

Seems like you are running out of points to argue with.

We should be asking you as to how you can come up with your notions of how others are more dominant drivers. Senna didn't win his first championship until 1988. So I guess Hamilton is now also better than Senna!! Oh wow, no one saw this coming, quick get R. Dennis on the line.

[bud]

I still cant imagine Alonso at Ferrari ever since he was comparing himself to Senna being a McLaren driver and how he never drove for Ferrari. I can imagine Kubica there though, i dont like him because all he does is whinge so would work out well for my tastes if he went to Ferrari.

[Denthúl]

I still cant imagine Alonso at Ferrari ever since he was comparing himself to Senna being a McLaren driver and how he never drove for Ferrari. I can imagine Kubica there though, i dont like him because all he does is whinge so would work out well for my tastes if he went to Ferrari.

I'm pretty sure that the only word in Kubica's vocabulary is 'understeer'