FORUMula1.com

[Denthúl]

You just don't get it, do you?

I certainly do, what you pack of vultures want are not just to eat the meat, you want the bones as well. Hamilton has been punished, his loss of podium, but even worse, much much worse is his loss of face and reputation within the sport. Get over it

I don't want any more punishments from the FIA - they have done enough as it is. What I want is for him to get a sanction from McLaren, as he rightfully deserves. I'm not a vulture, I'm just so annoyed that one long-time member of McLaren, who has dedicated a significant portion of his life to the team, got the boot whilst golden-boy got off scot-free!

[MAD MAX]

[quote="Denthúl"]
I don't want any more punishments from the FIA - they have done enough as it is. What I want is for him to get a sanction from McLaren, as he rightfully deserves. I'm not a vulture, I'm just so annoyed that one long-time member of McLaren, who has dedicated a significant portion of his life to the team, got the boot whilst golden-boy got off scot-free![/quote]

You are clearly on a different plane, he did not get off scot-free, he lost his points, disqualified and his reputation seriously damaged. Ryan screwed up big time, he was the gaffer, and made the team decisions and directions. He cocked up of the trulli affair and used Lewis to back him to get Trulli D'Q'd, thats unforgivable. Yes Lewis as an employee so wrongfully went along with it out of misguided loyalty to his employers and team, he's paid the price and paid it painfully well. Look outside your blinkers, there's an objective world out there

[Denthúl]

I don't want any more punishments from the FIA - they have done enough as it is. What I want is for him to get a sanction from McLaren, as he rightfully deserves. I'm not a vulture, I'm just so annoyed that one long-time member of McLaren, who has dedicated a significant portion of his life to the team, got the boot whilst golden-boy got off scot-free![/quote]

You are clearly on a different plane, he did not get off scot-free, he lost his points, disqualified and his reputation seriously damaged. Ryan screwed up big time, he was the gaffer, and made the team decisions and directions. He cocked up of the trulli affair and used Lewis to back him to get Trulli D'Q'd, thats unforgivable. Yes Lewis as an employee so wrongfully went along with it out of misguided loyalty to his employers and team, he's paid the price and paid it painfully well. Look outside your blinkers, there's an objective world out there

I'm talking purely from a McLaren perspective. It's quite obvious. You're just choosing to repeat the FIA sanctions in a weak attempt to hide from the fact that Lewis has gotten away with it, internally, whilst Ryan got the sack.

[MAD MAX]

I'm talking purely from a McLaren perspective. It's quite obvious. You're just choosing to repeat the FIA sanctions in a weak attempt to hide from the fact that Lewis has gotten away with it, internally, whilst Ryan got the sack.

Ryan wasn't driving the bloody car, the FIA didn't take any action regarding Ryan, so McLaren have dispensed with his services. That leaves Lewis, he's been punished by the FIA, are you really suggesting 2 bites of the cherry and double jeopardy against Hamilton, if so you are one sad puppy.

[Denthúl]

I'm talking purely from a McLaren perspective. It's quite obvious. You're just choosing to repeat the FIA sanctions in a weak attempt to hide from the fact that Lewis has gotten away with it, internally, whilst Ryan got the sack.

Ryan wasn't driving the bloody car, the FIA didn't take any action regarding Ryan, so McLaren have dispensed with his services. That leaves Lewis, he's been punished by the FIA, are you really suggesting 2 bites of the cherry and double jeopardy against Hamilton, if so you are one sad puppy.

Dave Ryan was representing McLaren. McLaren lost the constructors' points, as well.

[MAD MAX]

Dave Ryan was representing McLaren. McLaren lost the constructors' points, as well.

Ryan wasn't punished, it was McLaren PLC who lost the constructors points, not Ryan. What you fail to understand is Ryan was the gaffer on the ground, he had the ultimate responsibility, he failed, his false directions to Lewis to allow Trulli to re-pass was ridiculous in the extreme and so wrong. He takes the can, It was his deceit/bending the truth before the stewards that caused all this, a point you don't even mention. Hamilton under instructions went along with Ryans submissions before the stewards, Hamilton was also wrong and has been punished. I say again, all you Hamilton kickers want is your pound of flesh and more. Will your ridiculous comments on a forum bulletin board change things or my position, absolutely not.

[Denthúl]

Dave Ryan was representing McLaren. McLaren lost the constructors' points, as well.

Ryan wasn't punished, it was McLaren PLC who lost the constructors points, not Ryan. What you fail to understand is Ryan was the gaffer on the ground, he had the ultimate responsibility, he failed, his false directions to Lewis to allow Trulli to re-pass was ridiculous in the extreme and so wrong. He takes the can, It was his deceit/bending the truth before the stewards that caused all this, a point you don't even mention. Hamilton under instructions went along with Ryans submissions before the stewards, Hamilton was also wrong and has been punished. I say again, all you Hamilton kickers want is your pound of flesh and more. Will your ridiculous comments on a forum bulletin board change things or my position, absolutely not.

Would you like to explain how you came to the conclusion that I'm a Hamilton kicker?

My comments are far from ridiculous. There is a two-tier punishment system being used by McLaren and it stinks. It's not that hard to see, unless of course you've got Hamilton-shapes glued over your eyes.

[IceManpjn]

What would be an appropriate punishment for Hamilton?

Slap on the wrist, as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't particularly outraged by the whole lying nonsense, and if he had been driving a Ferrari he wouldn't get any punishment at all, and I think deep down inside we all know that to be true.

[Denthúl]

What would be an appropriate punishment for Hamilton?

Slap on the wrist, as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't particularly outraged by the whole lying nonsense, and if he had been driving a Ferrari he wouldn't get any punishment at all, and I think deep down inside we all know that to be true.

No. People who enjoy conspiracy theories 'know' that to be true.

People who follow neither team have a far more realistic view of the situation.

[Jensonb]

I don't want any more punishments from the FIA - they have done enough as it is. What I want is for him to get a sanction from McLaren, as he rightfully deserves. I'm not a vulture, I'm just so annoyed that one long-time member of McLaren, who has dedicated a significant portion of his life to the team, got the boot whilst golden-boy got off scot-free!

You are clearly on a different plane, he did not get off scot-free, he lost his points, disqualified and his reputation seriously damaged. Ryan screwed up big time, he was the gaffer, and made the team decisions and directions. He cocked up of the trulli affair and used Lewis to back him to get Trulli D'Q'd, thats unforgivable. Yes Lewis as an employee so wrongfully went along with it out of misguided loyalty to his employers and team, he's paid the price and paid it painfully well. Look outside your blinkers, there's an objective world out there

You're unbelievable. Lewis is clearly just as culpable in this as Ryan, and he went unpunished by the team. It's all well and good saying "poor ickle baby Hamilton got told to do bad things by big bad Dave and the poor thing got his reputation tarnished, bless him", but the fact is Dave Ryan has a reputation too. His name has been raked through the coals too, and after 35 years of loyal service, McLaren happily fed that treatment to shield Golden Boy. Lewis was as in the wrong as Dave. Dave's punishment is quite obviously heavy-handed, and that's because McLaren would like people to believe it was all him and Lewis was as pure as fresh snow before Mr. Ryan had a word in his ear. Sorry, but that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If McLaren and Lewis had any guts they'd not have thrown Dave to the wolves and issued Lewis's weak, grovellign pseudo-apology which basically just served to pass the blame. They would have admitted Lewis was party to a conspiracy to mislead the FIA into altering a race result and punished those involved accordingly.

Instead, Lewis gets to play the victim and Dave is branded the villain who tried to con an unsuspecting Lewis into cheating. If you think that's fair then I hope you're never called to do Jury Duty.

Edit: And stop calling him "the gaffer", it makes him sound like the manager of a building site, with Lewis some lowly employee.

[MAD MAX]

Edit: And stop calling him "the gaffer", it makes him sound like the manager of a building site, with Lewis some lowly employee.

He was the gaffer, boss, team manager, call it what you you like. At the end of the day he was the man in charge. He made that fateful decision and has paid the price, very sad but true. Have you read of any denials by him, can you post any links to interviews of his outrageous treatment by McLaren, no of course you can't because you cannot defend the indefensible, at least Hamilton had the balls to sit alone in front of scores of camera's and apologise. He's been pillored, insulted and his reputation called into serious question, disqualified, just what further punishment would you like him to receive?

[Denthúl]

Edit: And stop calling him "the gaffer", it makes him sound like the manager of a building site, with Lewis some lowly employee.

He was the gaffer, boss, team manager, call it what you you like. At the end of the day he was the man in charge. He made that fateful decision and has paid the price, very sad but true. Have you read of any denials by him, can you post any links to interviews of his outrageous treatment by McLaren, no of course you can't because you cannot defend the indefensible, at least Hamilton had the balls to sit alone in front of scores of camera's and apologise. He's been pillored, insulted and his reputation called into serious question, disqualified, just what further punishment would you like him to receive?

Well, I'm pretty sure that he would have received a pay-off from McLaren, so he wouldn't say a thing.

[MAD MAX]

Edit: And stop calling him "the gaffer", it makes him sound like the manager of a building site, with Lewis some lowly employee.

He was the gaffer, boss, team manager, call it what you you like. At the end of the day he was the man in charge. He made that fateful decision and has paid the price, very sad but true. Have you read of any denials by him, can you post any links to interviews of his outrageous treatment by McLaren, no of course you can't because you cannot defend the indefensible, at least Hamilton had the balls to sit alone in front of scores of camera's and apologise. He's been pillored, insulted and his reputation called into serious question, disqualified, just what further punishment would you like him to receive?

Well, I'm pretty sure that he would have received a pay-off from McLaren, so he wouldn't say a thing.[/quote]

Thats a very poor response to my question, so I'll ask again, despite all Hamilton has had to endure (Through his and others doing), just what further punishment do you feel he should receive

[darwin dali]

If Whitmarsh was thinking of cutting off one limb would save the whole body, he's got it seriously wrong, and it's further evidence of why he's not fit to run McLaren.

Who should run the team then?

Well, this is problem, there isn't anybody readily available to replace him. Whitmarsh should run the team until a suitable replacement is found.

Norbert!

[Jensonb]

Edit: And stop calling him "the gaffer", it makes him sound like the manager of a building site, with Lewis some lowly employee.

He was the gaffer, boss, team manager, call it what you you like. At the end of the day he was the man in charge. He made that fateful decision and has paid the price, very sad but true. Have you read of any denials by him, can you post any links to interviews of his outrageous treatment by McLaren, no of course you can't because you cannot defend the indefensible, at least Hamilton had the balls to sit alone in front of scores of camera's and apologise. He's been pillored, insulted and his reputation called into serious question, disqualified, just what further punishment would you like him to receive?

You're completely missing the point. Dave Ryan has endured many times worse, and has taken the bullet for Hamilton. The least Lewis and McLaren could do is not be so gutless as to act as if Lewis is as pure as fresh driven snow.