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[FRAFPDD]

Can someone help me with a quick question cause i thouht i understood but if seen a lot of contradicting information recently


Whatis downforce?

Does Increasing downforce mean lower top speed and faster cornering?

Aparrently higher downforce means you understeer in corners but surely oversteer is faster to use in corners even though arguably harder to handle?

Does higher downforce mean more drag?

Surely oversteer is ALWAYS better then understeer, understeer from what ive seen on games and real life is a nightmare to try and set good lap times with, you just keep going off at corners.


Does a higher ride hight make you faster or slower in the straights and same question fo corners,

All help appreciated massively

[What's Burning?]

downforce is the amount of pressure asserted on a car due to the way the wind passes over it, so wings and even the shape of the car itself create downforce.

The benefit is that the more "force" being created the more sticky your car is during a corner and the faster you can take that corner because you're able to resist much higher G forces around that corner.

The draw back to is as you note, the more downforce generally the less aerodynamically efficient you are (more drag) so therefore your top speed suffers. The reason manufacturers spend MILLIONS in wind tunnels is to optimize the amount of downforce they can get without adding additional drag or lowering their aerodynamic efficiency.

Understeer and oversteer are personal preferences so a driver generally likes a certain feel to their car regardless of whether it's under of over steering.

[f1ea]

Downforce is... the opposite of lift. hehe. Lift is an aerodynamic force acting upwards (ie opposite to gravity) on an object.

F1s generate downforce by creating a large pressure gradient (lower pressure on the bottom of the car = faster air velocity); and also by changing the angles of their wings.

Every part of the F1 body is designed for aerodynamic efficiency. More downforce is more drag only if aero efficiency remains the same; but if you are able to increase aero efficiency with better/alternative devices (such as the double diffuser, the flexing wing) you may have higher downforce without the same increase in drag.

Oversteer and understeer relate to the aerodynamic "balance" of the car. Undesteer is more downforce on the back, while oversteer is a lot of downforce in the front. I guess it all depends on what the dirver likes. An understeery car has better exits from corners....... while an oversteery car can be driven more aggresively and should have higher top speed, but higher tire wear and spin. They both have their advantages/disadvantages, so its not simply understeer is better than oversteer. Jenson likes an understeery car, while Schumacher likes oversteer.

<Edit> Ah ride height
Lower ride is better for prety much everything you'd want to go faster. But you bottom out, so there goes the balance to find = as low as possible without bottoming out. Because lower ride lowers the center of gravity and reduces the tendency for the car to tip over (tipping over is the extreme, but a little bit of tip will reduce grip on the tipping side's tires, while increasing load on the other side). A lower ride also generates more downforce as the air passing along the bottom is faster so it creates a bit more downforce...

[stonemonkey]

It doesn't always appear to be as simple as increasing the front downforce equates to more grip at the front, I remember someone I think it was Heidfeld in the BMW a couple of years ago saying on the radio that he lacked grip at the rear and the teams solution was to increase the front wing angle during the pit stop.
I also remember DC talking about balance and that in reality the cars are never balanced and suffer differently going through different corners. There's other things that can affect it too aside from the aero, the wheel geometry as toe and camber and wheelbase, the diff settings as Brundle mentioned in the last race and the weight distribution as f1ea was talking about.
Was Alonsos Renault in the years he won the championship not quite understeery?

[f1ea]

Yeah, very good obervation.

Under/over steer is not strictly related to downforce or aero dynamics. It is also largely infuenced by the car's weight distribution and suspension settings. For example, weight biased to the back should understeer, while biased to the front should oversteer.... suspension settings influence as well, because they change the ammount of grip available at the tires.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...Under/over steer is not strictly related to downforce or aero dynamics. It is also largely infuenced by the car's weight distribution and suspension settings. For example, weight biased to the back should understeer, while biased to the front should oversteer.... suspension settings influence as well, because they change the ammount of grip available at the tires.

Button is taking credit for some of MSC's woes this season because he developed that chassis while he still was at Brawn. JB likes a bit of understeer but MSC despises it. Much to his chagrin, MSC is stuck with what JB developed.

[What's Burning?]

...Under/over steer is not strictly related to downforce or aero dynamics. It is also largely infuenced by the car's weight distribution and suspension settings. For example, weight biased to the back should understeer, while biased to the front should oversteer.... suspension settings influence as well, because they change the ammount of grip available at the tires.

Button is taking credit for some of MSC's woes this season because he developed that chassis while he still was at Brawn. JB likes a bit of understeer but MSC despises it. Much to his chagrin, MSC is stuck with what JB developed.

It would be interesting to see Button drive that car. See how much more if any he'd be able to squeeze out of it than Rosberg.

[Jensonb]

...Under/over steer is not strictly related to downforce or aero dynamics. It is also largely infuenced by the car's weight distribution and suspension settings. For example, weight biased to the back should understeer, while biased to the front should oversteer.... suspension settings influence as well, because they change the ammount of grip available at the tires.

Button is taking credit for some of MSC's woes this season because he developed that chassis while he still was at Brawn. JB likes a bit of understeer but MSC despises it. Much to his chagrin, MSC is stuck with what JB developed.

Yep. Whilst Button, ironically, is doing just fine in the Lewis Hamilton-led design on the McLaren, despite the fact Lewis vastly prefers oversteer. Lewis actually has a fascinating way of taking a corner, he prefers to throw it in knowing full well it's going to slide and then correct the slide every time, in whatever way is needed. Even for drivers who prefer oversteer, that's a different approach. It's even more different from Button's though, Button prefers to hit the brake later, and ultimately harder, and precisely move the car around the turn in one fluid motion. This difference is why Button needs a more predictable setup (Understeer) and why Lewis needs the more unpredictable, but more flexible, setup (Oversteer).

Essentially, Button is what you might call a proactive driver, whereas Lewis is a reactive, or adaptive one, much like Schumi.

[The Immortal Dragon]

yeah, Schumacher also likes to throw the car into the corner letting the rear slide away.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

yeah, Schumacher also likes to throw the car into the corner letting the rear slide away.

The great ones all like to "steer with the rear."

[What's Burning?]

yeah, Schumacher also likes to throw the car into the corner letting the rear slide away.

The great ones all like to "steer with the rear."

It's just more "fun" to watch.

[Jensonb]

yeah, Schumacher also likes to throw the car into the corner letting the rear slide away.

The great ones all like to "steer with the rear."

Not true at all.

[f1ea]

yeah, Schumacher also likes to throw the car into the corner letting the rear slide away.

The great ones all like to "steer with the rear."

Not true at all.

Well, i do.