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[myownalias]

In recent weeks I have been wondering how on Earth some people managed to pass their driving test here in the United States. For example; often when driving at 40mph(ish) on a normal surface street, someone will pull out in front of me from a side street and proceed to travel at 15 - 20mph forcing me to brake heavily, if you are going to pull out in front of another car; get on the gas to not disrupt traffic flow. An incident today could have caused a nasty accident; joining the highway, 65mph speed limit; there was one car at the front of a queue of four cars that was travelling at 35mph entering the highway. In the end I just put my foot down and cut across the white lines, passing the queue of cars to get onto the highway for fear of grinding to a halt. I really didn't want to be at a stand still trying to get upto speed on a highway as my mode of transportation today was a Ford Focus, not the fastest accelerating car in the world. Finally while I am on the subject of highway driving, despite having three or four lanes, here in Kansas hardly anyone moves over to let you out from the slip road, which is common courtesy in most countries/states.

Time to get my road rage in check I guess...

Anyway, my experiences are based in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas drivers were much better at driving, maybe I am a little over aggressive but on busy roads you have to be or else you'd never get anywhere. So the point of this post other than to rant; how do my fellow forumites feel about drivers in their state/country, any horror stories?

[vaptin]

You should see the driving in India.

[texasmr2]

In recent weeks I have been wondering how on Earth some people managed to pass their driving test here in the United States.

I wonder the same thing myself on a daily basis .

For example; often when driving at 40mph(ish) on a normal surface street, someone will pull out in front of me from a side street and proceed to travel at 15 - 20mph forcing me to brake heavily, if you are going to pull out in front of another car; get on the gas to not disrupt traffic flow.

I understand your frustration and totally agree that they should merge safely but if the road has multiple lanes the righthand lane is too be considered the slow lane and it is the duty of all traffic behind to adjust their position and/or speed accordingly as the driver who pulled out now has the right of way.

An incident today could have caused a nasty accident; joining the highway, 65mph speed limit; there was one car at the front of a queue of four cars that was travelling at 35mph entering the highway.

the majority of highway entrance ramps have a speed of 35mph which is a big safety issue imho aswell.

In the end I just put my foot down and cut across the white lines, passing the queue of cars to get onto the highway for fear of grinding to a halt.

That is a safety/traffic violation for crossing a solid white/yellow line and you could recieve a ticket for it. If you did grind to a halt whats the big deal and if your entry speed onto the highway was lower than the posted speed limit, that is why the manufacturers put BLINKERS on their cars, it is up to YOU to yield a safe entrance into the flow of traffic not the drivers that are already on the main highway.

I really didn't want to be at a stand still trying to get upto speed on a highway as my mode of transportation today was a Ford Focus, not the fastest accelerating car in the world. Finally while I am on the subject of highway driving, despite having three or four lanes, here in Kansas hardly anyone moves over to let you out from the slip road, which is common courtesy in most countries/states.

You mean 'slip stream' right? Check this, if I am doing the speed limit or even just 5mph over the limit while in the fast lane/left hand lane I will not move over simply because I am doing the speed limit and if someone wants to pass me they must cleanly pass or go around me. Kinda like the Webber/Vettel scenario.

Time to get my road rage in check I guess...

Yes that is a good idea and can only add to your familys safety. You have mentioned on one or two occasions that you have a 'lead foot' so maybe it is time to 'growup alittle' while driving??

Anyway, my experiences are based in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas drivers were much better at driving, maybe I am a little over aggressive but on busy roads you have to be or else you'd never get anywhere. So the point of this point other than to rant; how do my fellow forumites feel about drivers in their state/country, any horror stories?

You reap what you sow and common courtesy will get you to your destination intact, ticket free and less stressed. Whats an additional 5-10mins? If one is always running late why should they not make the personal effort to wakeup or leave 5-10mins earlier???

Bitching about traffic is one thing but if someone has openly admitted to constantly speeding and breaking the traffic laws that are made to protect them don't bitch to me. I would write you a ticket quicker than you could blink an eye.

[What's Burning?]

At least in Kansas you're only dealing with idiot drivers. In the NYC area, the Cross Bronx Expressway in particular, during rush hour, in the rain, with only 60% of drivers speak English and any of the million potholes you hit will bend a suspension arm. It's lovely.

[bud]

Being an Englander i thought your biggest problem would be everyone driving on the wrong side of the road over there

[myownalias]

First thing I like to say in reply Tex; yes I do have a lead foot; but that doesn't need I speed excessively, I follow the flow of traffic generally, if most people are doing 80mph on a 70mph stretch of road, I will travel at 80mph, does that me an unsafe driver, no it does not... and for your information I don't drive like that with my family in the car.

Off ramps here in Kansas have a speed limit of 35mph; on ramps however have a highway speed limit for safer merging. I do not agree that accelerating from a stand still onto a highway with traffic travelling at 65mph is safe; I frankly do not trust other drivers to be paying attention; with the amount of people I see using mobile phones, adjusting their make-up or changing the radio station being totally oblivious to what is going on around them is astonishing; often drifting into other lanes. I do not do anything than drive when I am behind the wheel; the radio stations never changes and I never answer my phone when driving, if it's important they'll leave a message.

So I am at the end of the on ramp; nowhere to go but into fast moving traffic from a standstill and other cars are going around me from the on ramp... how is that a safe situation? I refuse to be put in that situation especially in a car that takes 12 seconds to get to 60mph on a good day if the gear box changes up when it should do!

I also do not agree with having to move over for cars pulling out of side roads; and often it is not possible as another car is alongside, on a 40mph road there really isn't a "slow lane", the responsibility is for the driver merging into traffic to make sure they have a safe gap to pull out and accelerate, I am not talking highways, I am talking about normal streets. If I have to take any sort of last minute avoidance action that is more likely to cause me to crash. I am talking about drivers pulling out and going slow when I am 25 to 50ft away from them when they pull out! I am more than willing to slow a little bit for people to merge into traffic but it's unacceptable that I have to brake heavily from 40mph to 15 - 20mph, It's really annoys me because often I do have my kids in the car...

And no I did not mean 'slip-stream', in the UK; on and off-ramps are called slip roads... sorry for not using US terminology.

[myownalias]

Being an Englander i thought your biggest problem would be everyone driving on the wrong side of the road over there

That did take some time to get used to it, but you learn quickly after driving down the wrong side of the highway a few times. That was a joke by the way!!!

At least in Kansas you're only dealing with idiot drivers. In the NYC area, the Cross Bronx Expressway in particular, during rush hour, in the rain, with only 60% of drivers speak English and any of the million potholes you hit will bend a suspension arm. It's lovely.

Not so far away from life here in Kansas... road surfaces are pretty bad in general because of the extreme weather we get here, and very little money to fix them

[texasmr2]

I understand your frustration with all points except the following:

First thing I like to say in reply Tex; yes I do have a lead foot; but that doesn't need I speed excessively, I follow the flow of traffic generally, if most people are doing 80mph on a 70mph stretch of road, I will travel at 80mph, does that me an unsafe driver, no it does not...

Is that not still speeding? Anything over the posted speed limit is unsafe.

and for your information I don't drive like that with my family in the car.

Good to know but lets be honest your family and returning home to them safely each day should be your main priority. You should drive like your family is in the car with you all the time even if they are not .

You asked for opinions so I gave you mine but I was aware that we would not agree 100% or even 80%. I just want you to be safe thats all .

[myownalias]

Yes I did ask for opinions and I appreciate your opinion even if I do not agree with it!!!

Yes, it is speeding but I do not agree it is unsafe; I am a confident driver; for some people 70mph is an unsafe speed to drive at. A safe speed to drive at is subjective at best; because the law states 70mph is the maximum safe driving speed doesn't mean you can't drive faster safely; it's all depends on driver skill and the cars handling abilities. Yes the law is the law and if I get a ticket I will pay the consequences of my actions. In my few days in Texas, I saw some excellent driving and some extremely dangerous driving, I noted a few drivers, including one police car on the George Bush highway in Dallas that was weaving in and out of highway traffic at more than 80mph, leaving very little margin for error. Hardly a good example to set is it?

Anyway I appreciate your views as ever Tex, I like to be challenged!!!

[Gaz]

I understand your frustration with all points except the following:

First thing I like to say in reply Tex; yes I do have a lead foot; but that doesn't need I speed excessively, I follow the flow of traffic generally, if most people are doing 80mph on a 70mph stretch of road, I will travel at 80mph, does that me an unsafe driver, no it does not...

Is that not still speeding? Anything over the posted speed limit is unsafe.

and for your information I don't drive like that with my family in the car.

Good to know but lets be honest your family and returning home to them safely each day should be your main priority. You should drive like your family is in the car with you all the time even if they are not .

You asked for opinions so I gave you mine but I was aware that we would not agree 100% or even 80%. I just want you to be safe thats all .

Unsafe? depends entirely on the driver, the car and the road mate.

Some country roads in the UK are 60mph so does that mean i should attempt to take all the sharp bends on these roads at 60mph no - that would be unsafe.

But on the motorway on a perfectly straight road in a suitable car whats unsafe about doing 80,90 or even 100mph nothing.

So long as your driving to the conditions, if its a dry day with no crosswind then its not unsafe to do those speeds, but if its raining with a heavy crosswind i'd slow to 60-70mph.

This is why in Germany where there are sections with no speed limit there are fewer accidents than in Austria and Switzerland were theres a is a speed limit.

The overall Road traffic safety of German autobahns is generally better than that of other European highways. German autobahn fatality rates are lower than Austria's and higher than Switzerland's rates. Highways are safer than other road types, as documented below.

So you see, speeding isn't unsafe people driving badly is, on the autobahans van drivers are now speeding in faster and faster vans and crashing as a result of the vehicle being unable to cope:

The only identifiable source of traffic risks in connection with speeding have been high-powered light trucks that came up within the last 15 years and as they are used by courier services (e.g. Mercedes-Benz Sprinter and trucks alike). Over the years they were only capable of speeds comparable to heavy duty trucks, but since manufacturers began to build in significantly more powerful engines they attain speeds of up to 180 km/h. This led to a significant portion of fatal crashes being caused by such vehicles [11] due to the driver overestimating their or the car's abilities to cope with sudden and heavy braking, side-winds, etc.

If they de-restriced some UK motorways i very much doubt there would be an increase in accidents.

[texasmr2]

Yes I did ask for opinions and I appreciate your opinion even if I do not agree with it!!!

Yes, it is speeding but I do not agree it is unsafe.

Every driver says so that is not an excuse. I drive the speed limit if not under slightly and offer road courtesy when needed.

I am a confident driver; for some people 70mph is an unsafe speed to drive at.

And for some over confidence is their downfall. You may think you are confident and skilled but that is no excuse. Hell I have atleast 20yrs of driving experience over you in many hi-po cars and have raced karts but I'm not the one looking for what seems to be an excuse.

A safe speed to drive at is subjective at best; because the law states 70mph is the maximum safe driving speed doesn't mean you can't drive faster safely[/b]; it's all depends on driver skill and the cars handling abilities.

Actually the Texas Penal Code Traffic Law defines safe driving as "a reasonable and prudent speed for the road conditions" but exceeding the posted speed limit is still a violation.

Yes the law is the law and if I get a ticket I will pay the consequences of my actions. In my few days in Texas, I saw some excellent driving and some extremely dangerous driving, I noted a few drivers, including one police car on the George Bush highway in Dallas that was weaving in and out of highway traffic at more than 80mph, leaving very little margin for error. Hardly a good example to set is it?

You do realize that you could have called 911 and given your location and the vehicles description right, so why didn't you instead of passing the blame???

Anyway I appreciate your views as ever Tex, I like to be challenged!!![/i]

Well you cross the state line and I'm hear to oblige.

[zurich_allan]

My tuppence worth; I too hate drivers that pull out of a side street on an ordinary road then proceed to drive slowly (usually under the speed limit). In fact in theUK, an individual would actually fail their driving test for doing such a thing, as if you perform ANY action on the road that causes a following car behind you to have to break heavily (which is considered to be evasive action) then you're in the wrong. It's the one scenario that if a driver from behind hits you it's actually YOUR fault for insurance purposes.

I also don't agree that driving in excess of the speed limit on a clear, non-residential road is unsafe. People always say that fast drivers are dangerous, but that just doesn't hold true. Fast drivers that DO crash will likely cause more damage, that's true certainly but in my mind there are 6 categories of drivers:

1. Slow good drivers
2. Slow Bad drivers
3. Normal good drivers
4. Normal bad drivers
5. Fast good drivers
6. Fast bad drivers

In my opinion whilst fast bad drivers are likely to injure or kill more - the worst of the lot by a country mile are the slow bad drivers. Characteristically these drivers are indecisive, and that is what makes them dangerous.

A scenario I've seen on more than one occasion from slow bad drivers is sitting at a busy-ish junction and you can physically see their thought process - will I go, won't I go, yes... no.... yes go for it followed by the inevitable crash or near miss with either oncoming traffic or side on traffic. Those that pull out of junctions when there isn't space or time to do so then proceed to drive at 20mph fall into the same category.

I don't care what ANYBODY says, they are the worst and most unsafe drivers by far.

[zurich_allan]

Also, a little tip to those in the UK - it's not always against the law to exceed the speed limit. It's perfectly legal to speed when performing an overtake so long as you pull back into the inside lane and drop back down to the speed limit once the move has been completed. Many people don't realise this and fall foul of ridiculously arbitrary speed cameras / traps and pay their fine out of ignorance of the fact they may have been doing nothing wrong.

[EwanM]

Also, a little tip to those in the UK - it's not always against the law to exceed the speed limit. It's perfectly legal to speed when performing an overtake so long as you pull back into the inside lane and drop back down to the speed limit once the move has been completed. Many people don't realise this and fall foul of ridiculously arbitrary speed cameras / traps and pay their fine out of ignorance of the fact they may have been doing nothing wrong.

Yep that is very true.

What is your opinion on Speed Cameras? There are too many littered in the Strathclyde area in my opinion. Even that stupid wee fiddly 50mph stretch between Prestwick airport and Kilmarnock

[zurich_allan]

Also, a little tip to those in the UK - it's not always against the law to exceed the speed limit. It's perfectly legal to speed when performing an overtake so long as you pull back into the inside lane and drop back down to the speed limit once the move has been completed. Many people don't realise this and fall foul of ridiculously arbitrary speed cameras / traps and pay their fine out of ignorance of the fact they may have been doing nothing wrong.

Yep that is very true.

What is your opinion on Speed Cameras? There are too many littered in the Strathclyde area in my opinion. Even that stupid wee fiddly 50mph stretch between Prestwick airport and Kilmarnock

Speed cameras in my opinion could perform a useful function if placed at accident blackspots, but the simple fact of the matter is that they're not. They're placed often in long stretches of non-residential road that people may speed but will NEVER have an accident in doing so, meaning that they are only put up to boost police coffers. Safety device my backside.

I know exactly the stretch you're talking about for the average speed cameras too - the M74 - I was down that stretch just two weeks ago when I was going to run the Ayr 10K. Again, in my opinion something is dangerous when it forces you to look for any lengthy period of time at anything other than the road in front of you. Now I have a SatNav that beeps rather annoyingly at you if you exceed the limit in an average speed camera zone, so I'm ok, but most people don't. Most people will for that 15 mile stretch or so be constantly looking at their dashboard to make sure they're staying within the limit. not safe, and utterly needless.

That's all besides the common practice of people slamming on the brakes unexpectedly to following traffic when they see a speed camera.