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[myownalias]

In the light of the recent revelations from Red Bull that Mark Webber was ordered to let Sebastian Vettel pass at the Turkish Grand Prix; even if that order wasn't passed onto Mark by his race engineer which ultimately caused the collision on lap 41. The team has to take 100% blame for this incident as it was caused by team orders gone wrong!!!

Team orders; are they good for the sport?... bad for racing?... or just part of what F1 should be?

My personal take on this is that team orders should not be allowed in any form of motor racing; it's bad for the spectacle of F1; bad for the reputation of F1; many people including myself are very annoyed and disillusioned by recent events, Red Bull have achieved a lot in recent years but this incident has forever tarnished what they achieved in my head. The only time I believe team orders should be allowed is when one driver is mathematically out of the race for the world drivers championship, certainly not when both drivers are on equal points going into a race. I think that the FIA should punish teams like Red Bull by stripping them of all their constructor points to date; that'll make them think twice about doing it again, but I seriously doubt that will happen any time soon. F1 needs to do a lot to repair it's image with all the recent scandals and these team orders continuing to be allowed is doing nothing but further damage the integrity of the governing body. The no team orders rule to too damn soft in my opinion

This thread isn't specifically about Red Bull; it's a general discussion about teams orders in F1!!!

[texasmr2]

Team orders = bad racing period regardless if one driver is out of the hunt or not, lets the cards fall where they may.

[racechick]

Team orders-bad! Its racing. We want to see the best man win, not the man who can manipulate the team or get favoured conditions. If these guys cant win without favours, get out and let someone else have the seat. Hollow victories.
Only time is as myownalis says is if one driver is so far out he cant mathematically win. Otherwise...game on!

[What's Burning?]

Man I love that movie.

Team orders, good for the team, bad for the drivers.

[7UpJordan]

Slow down Rubens/Eddie, think of the Championship please...

[Gaz]

[youtube]9qEwBi1NyBI[/youtube]

[scotty]

Bad and ugly. And it seems like Red Bull weren't the only ones acting suspicious after Turkey judging by McLaren's unsatisfactory explainations in some recent press! Sadly, every single team will be guilty of it when the boot fits so to an extent you may as well just accept it. But this early in the season, it's disappointing...

It's not as bad as in the WRC though, where drivers literally stop on some stages to manipulate running orders for the next day. That is truly farcical and i hope it gets stopped asap.

[TGLucario475]

Just let them race without team orders. I'd only like team orders if one of the drivers needed the win to clinch the title from their rivals and his team-mate wasn't in the running for it.

[darwin dali]

Let's face it: as long as we have TEAMS of 2 or more drivers in F1, there will be team orders in some form or shape. The only solution I see is having teams of only one driver - and even then, some surreptitious loyalties between drivers or teams could cause 'inter-team' orders.

[bmwpower]

In the light of the recent revelations from Red Bull that Mark Webber was ordered to let Sebastian Vettel pass at the Turkish Grand Prix; even if that order wasn't passed onto Mark by his race engineer which ultimately caused the collision on lap 41. The team has to take 100% blame for this incident as it was caused by team orders gone wrong!!!

Team orders; are they good for the sport?... bad for racing?... or just part of what F1 should be?

My personal take on this is that team orders should not be allowed in any form of motor racing; it's bad for the spectacle of F1; bad for the reputation of F1; many people including myself are very annoyed and disillusioned by recent events, Red Bull have achieved a lot in recent years but this incident has forever tarnished what they achieved in my head. The only time I believe team orders should be allowed is when one driver is mathematically out of the race for the world drivers championship, certainly not when both drivers are on equal points going into a race. I think that the FIA should punish teams like Red Bull by stripping them of all their constructor points to date; that'll make them think twice about doing it again, but I seriously doubt that will happen any time soon. F1 needs to do a lot to repair it's image with all the recent scandals and these team orders continuing to be allowed is doing nothing but further damage the integrity of the governing body. The no team orders rule to too damn soft in my opinion

This thread isn't specifically about Red Bull; it's a general discussion about teams orders in F1!!!

Has Red Bull publicly stated that they order Webber to let Vettel pass? or is it more of an opinion from a website? What we saw at Turkey wasn't team order but two drivers racing each other then crashing. I think what happened in Turkey wasn't a big deal, it was just a racing incident but some people are really belly aching over nothing. If you really think that team order happened with the team asking Webber to let Vettel pass, then what about what happened if its in REVERSE? Isn't team order supposed to dictate who wins or who loses? If so then didn't McLaren issued a team order by telling Button not to pass LH? To me McLaren is dictating the outcome of the race by not allowing the drivers to race each other, isn't this team order? The arguments is that drivers should race each other as individuals and not as teams for the spirit of the sports but if you are telling one driver not to pass another, that's the same thing ask telling another driver to let his teammate pass.

[RyRy]

Team Orders in terms of racing...is bad but for the TEAM its good.

My views are:

If you have a clear 1, 2(can be 6/7 or 2,3 or w/e) then there should be team orders to stop attempting to overtake one another to try and prevent them crashing into eachother (Vettel, Webber)

If you are towards the end of or even mid way through the season and you have managed to get a 1,2 but your driver who's in second is on 109 points (last year style) but your driver in first has only 24points then they should be allowed to give orders to let car who's second get the lead.

They race as teams for a reason so they should be able to do team orders. If no team orders then abolish the teams and have 1 car per team and much more 'teams'

Simple.

[racechick]

The question is whether the team orders are to advantage the team or to disadvantage/advantage a driver. The latter should not be allowed...and its hard to prove i guess.

[bmwpower]

The question is whether the team orders are to advantage the team or to disadvantage/advantage a driver. The latter should not be allowed...and its hard to prove i guess.

Sh*t we agreed on something . Good, Bad, or Ugly, don't matter because we are still watch it. Unless they do something deliberately like the Ferrari saga, its just a common thing in F1 and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[racechick]

The question is whether the team orders are to advantage the team or to disadvantage/advantage a driver. The latter should not be allowed...and its hard to prove i guess.

Sh*t we agreed on something . Good, Bad, or Ugly, don't matter because we are still watch it. Unless they do something deliberately like the Ferrari saga, its just a common thing in F1 and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you on your way out.

To some extent. But red bull look very like they just did do the Ferrari saga-just less blatantly becuase its now not allowed.
Also have you heard of the expression-biting off your nose to spite your face? Thats what not watching F1 becuause we dont like some of the antics would be like. Theres too much to love about F1. Its just a shame we have to take so much poo with it. Mosely and all his nonsense and personal vendettas being a prime example.Schumacher's engineered wins another and now Red Bull.

[nish2280]

The question is whether the team orders are to advantage the team or to disadvantage/advantage a driver. The latter should not be allowed...and its hard to prove i guess.

Sh*t we agreed on something . Good, Bad, or Ugly, don't matter because we are still watch it. Unless they do something deliberately like the Ferrari saga, its just a common thing in F1 and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you on your way out.

To some extent. But red bull look very like they just did do the Ferrari saga-just less blatantly becuase its now not allowed.
Also have you heard of the expression-biting off your nose to spite your face? Thats what not watching F1 becuause we dont like some of the antics would be like. Theres too much to love about F1. Its just a shame we have to take so much poo with it. Mosely and all his nonsense and personal vendettas being a prime example.Schumacher's engineered wins another and now Red Bull.

If your saying that there were team orders in Red Bull then i think your wrong because if there were both drivers would have been told that Vettel is going to overtake Webber, it wasnt just Webber being a hero and if it was, knowing Mark, he would have made it very clear.

In McLaren's case i think that team orders were only used so that Lewis wouldnt get annoyed that the team told him to back off and that Button not was going to overtake him which he ended up doing.