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#137593
Get some Coffee, i may be a while :coffee:

Given the recent BMW story, i was having a think about the future of F1.

As we are seeing, and tbh i don't think we have seen the last of manufacturer removal from F1, large scale manufacturers are losing the financial stomach for F1.

This has always been the case, but with the recent financial downturn, they are looking to see where every penny can be saved. to them, they make no money off points in a championship, or from race wins. The kudos of a championship winning car does not influence the buyer anymore, in fact it may even put them off, such is the distain for anything that doesn't produce water and fairies out the spout, by our more and more brainwashed consumers, that "Green is good!".

F1, and most motorsport in general is unpopular (at least thats what the non motoring minded would like us to believe), the gloamorous image of spending billions on a couple of cars to go .03 secnds faster than the other team looks arrogant and pointless in many consumers eyes, and the manufacturers cannot afford to be seen to not be making safe, clean, boring cars.

As a result, F1 will gradually lose the big manufacturers....

However this is not the end of F1, in fact i think it is far from it.

F1 used to be bespoke chassis, customer engines and various tyre manufacturers, there were battles between the engine builders, the chassis builders and the tyre manufacturers.

Now it has become a battle between, aerodynamic experts, 3 engine builders, and 1 tyre manufacturer sitting laughing that all the teams have to use their products.

Mclaren, Ferrari and Renault are the teams that have always been big names, but only renault is a major car manufacturer that has been in F1 for years with any success. Ferrari is still a small scale manufacturer, in the grand scheme, Mclaren is still technicallly a privateer.

With the advent of USf1 and the other pricvateer teams, will we see a return to specific teams who's only desire to be in F1 is to win races and championships, no marketing rubbish, no smooching sponsors, just a team, a car and drivers, regulation may allow more free ideas exploration again, let the technology run rampant, have an engine that revs to 22,000rpm, it will be great, but fragile, or have an engine that revs lower but the car is smoother, sleaker\grippier and can hold the ground better at corners and overtake the faster car.

This may all be conjecture, but if F1 returns to bespoke privateer teams with manufacturer engines, we may see a return to a second golden age of f1 racing.

Or it may all just go down the pan!
#137599
Quite frankly I think F1 is better off without the overpowering manufacturers, however that is not to say that I wont miss the BMW team. I think 2010 has the potential to truly be a great season, maybe even one of the greats. With more private teams in the championship and larger grids, it will be just like the glory days of F1. I have been a firm supporter of the salary cap from the get go, so long as its practical of course, but I think the sport will benefit from both a more level playing field and an increase in ingenuity in designs. I do hope that BMW will continue as an engine supplier in the future, unfortunately I think its safe to say that they wont be around in 2010 as all the new teams were forced to use Cosworth. Best wishes to Mario, truly a class act.
#137618
Hopefully we'll get some drivers appearing that aren't robots shackled by PR corporate responsibilities... :thumbup:
#137620
Hopefully we'll get some drivers appearing that aren't robots shackled by PR corporate responsibilities... :thumbup:

Yes, hopefully.
But I guess if manufacturers don't NEED F1 then they will choose to not be in it, simple as,
#137667
I've been having a look at manufacturer teams that have come and gone of late (by a manufacturer team I mean a team that is in F1 for the purpose of selling road cars rather than for the racing itself) and it's not terribly pretty:

Renault – 2002-????
Toyota – 2002-????
BMW Sauber – 2006-2009
Honda – 2006-2008
Spyker – 2007
Jaguar – 2000-2004

They average a longevity of about 5 seasons. The problem is that whereas a privateer team has two exits routes from F1, both of which team owners are reluctant to pursue in the form of either a buyout or insolvency, their presence in F1 is their reason for existing. For a manufacturer team, as soon as there is no sustainable justification for their presence on a profit and loss account, they go. And in a recession, they tend to go pretty early.

The problem is there's a major paradox in Manufacturer involvement. They're in F1 to sell cars, and the best way to do this is by winning stuff. However, the people who are in racing for the sake of racing are there for the the sport, so they tend to be more tenacious competitors, and tend to be much better at winning. Say what you like about people such as Ron Dennis, Luca Di Montezemelo or Frank Williams, you know deep down they'd sell their sisters into slavery if it helped them win races, because it's what they live for. I couldn't say the same of a team like Toyota...

Ultimately I think many manufacturers come into F1 with unrealistic expectations. I heard a news report today that said BMW had "only" won one race in four years. To anyone who knows F1, that's actually pretty good going. Jordan took 8 years to win, Sauber never did, and Frank Williams was in F1 for a decade before his one of his teams became truly competitive. If you come in having told your board you'll be winning titles within a short space of time, disappointment is virtually inevitable. But on the other hand, if you tell your board the facts of F1 life, it's unlikely they'd endorse the project in the first place...
#137913
I think as we've seen on a number of occasions before today that Manufacturers can never guarantee their long term future in the sport.

This is why I argued so hard against a FOTA breakaway series. I doubt a new series would have kept BMW in the sport for much longer, and question marks still surround Renault and Toyota.

What i'm trying to say is that Manufacturer teams always come and go, but the constructors will remain the sport's vital organs. They only exist to race, they are not governed by boardrooms and world wide car sales.

I'm actually quite glad Williams have held out for so long. Imagine if they had allowed BMW to buy into the team and today's annoucement had happened?
#137918
I'm actually quite glad Williams have held out for so long. Imagine if they had allowed BMW to buy into the team and today's annoucement had happened?

I bet Sir Frank had a little smile on his face this morning when he heard the news, standing up to BMW and not allowing them to buy his team out and letting them walk away appears to have been a very good idea afterall.
#137920
I'm actually quite glad Williams have held out for so long. Imagine if they had allowed BMW to buy into the team and today's annoucement had happened?

I bet Sir Frank had a little smile on his face this morning when he heard the news, standing up to BMW and not allowing them to buy his team out and letting them walk away appears to have been a very good idea afterall.


:yes:

Even if I'm agreeing with you in such unfortunate circumstances. :(


Whilst manufacturers have done a lot for the sport, this is entirely their own doing. They are the ones that came in and spent so much money on chasing tenths and even hundredths of seconds. It was inevitable, really. :(
#137921
I'm actually quite glad Williams have held out for so long. Imagine if they had allowed BMW to buy into the team and today's annoucement had happened?

I bet Sir Frank had a little smile on his face this morning when he heard the news, standing up to BMW and not allowing them to buy his team out and letting them walk away appears to have been a very good idea afterall.


Williams, and Mclaren to a degree, are precisely how Formula One should be.
A series dominated by constructors, with manufacturer engine backing, against the common enemy: The prancing horse. :yes:
#137926
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The point still remains that Williams took a big risk in not accepting BMW's offer and are only afloat at the moment because Ecclestone give them a good handshake. Then Williams and BMW could have laughed at each other's stupidity.
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