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[EwanM]

Cosworth engine no advantage in 2010 – Head
Rev limit an issue ahead of Cosworth return
29/06/09 10:36
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3631.shtml

It is not true that small teams equipped with Cosworth engines next year will enjoy an unfair technical advantage.

That is the insistence of Williams' Patrick Head, amid a recent controversy between FOTA members and the FIA about Formula One's mandatory 18,000rpm rev limit.

The FIA is proposing that, with Cosworth returning to F1 in 2010 as a supplier of cut-price engines to independent teams, the British engine maker be allowed to run with unlimited revs.

Cosworth last raced in F1 with Williams in 2006, when its 2.4 litre V8 on occasion surpassed the 20,000rpm barrier.

But while a 2,000rpm bonus might seem like a huge advantage for new entrants US F1, Campos and Manor next year, Head insists other drawbacks of the Cosworth will more than offset the benefit.


The Briton insists F1's Formula One Teams' Association should have ‘no fear’ of the four-year-old Cosworth, while FIA President Max Mosley worries that with a rev-limit, the engine will be sorely off the pace.

"The (2006) Cosworth engine uses clearly more fuel than the current engines," Head is quoted as saying by Auto Motor und Sport. "The cars will have to carry 15 kilograms more (fuel) for a race distance. That means half a second on the lap time and higher tyre wear.”

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS Internationa

[EwanM]

Quite interesting comments from Head, although not surprising. I wonder where F1 now stands over the Cosworth issue. Will the FOTA teams think the same way as say Williams or will they throw the toys out?

[myownalias]

No doubt that FOTA will throw their toys out over the non-existent advantage, the FIA will throw it out in the court of appeal then the Cosworth teams will end up struggling in midfield at best or running out of fuel and FOTA will realise what Patrick Head has realised and stop moaning about it! someone is always protesting something in F1!

[Frosty]

The engine should be limited to 18,000 RPM like all the others! The rules should be the same for everyone it's their own fault if the engine is crap at 18,000 RPM.

[myownalias]

The engine should be limited to 18,000 RPM like all the others! The rules should be the same for everyone it's their own fault if the engine is crap at 18,000 RPM.

I was going to come up with an argument about how engines were frozen in 2008 and Cosworth exited F1 at the end of 2006, but...
...I did some reading up and found engines were frozen at the end of 2006 so technically the Cosworth engine should be limited to 18,000rpm.

But it also appears that Mercedes, Ferrari and BMW cheated by altering their engines for reliability and safety reasons after the freeze (with the blessing of the FIA) and managed to tweak a reputed extra 30bhp out of their engines; hence why those teams were uber competitive in 2007/08...
...so their poor form this season is justice you might say?!?!

[bud]

they didnt cheat, they worked on the parts they were allowed to, types of oils etc. F1 is all about pushing the technicalities to the letter. just look at the diffuser bunch.


ontopic i think this is more of WIlliams trying to get on the FIAs good books, Cosworth should have the same rules as the others. I mean why not let the 3 new teams use 08 spec rear wings because Aero wise they will be playing catch up too

[madbrad]

I don't know what they were thinking, the cosworth will be a dog just like it always has been.

[myownalias]

they didnt cheat, they worked on the parts they were allowed to, types of oils etc. F1 is all about pushing the technicalities to the letter.

They still made changes after the freeze; if that is the case all the other engine manufacturers should have been allowed to make the same changes. From what I have read other manufacturers weren't allowed to make the same changes when they found out what McLaren, Ferrari and BMW did! It wasn't much of a freeze if certain teams were allowed to make changes after others had already had their engines frozen hence why Renault dropped off the pace drastically in 2007!

[bud]

they didnt cheat, they worked on the parts they were allowed to, types of oils etc. F1 is all about pushing the technicalities to the letter.

They still made changes after the freeze; if that is the case all the other engine manufacturers should have been allowed to make the same changes. From what I have read other manufacturers weren't allowed to make the same changes when they found out what McLaren, Ferrari and BMW did! It wasn't much of a freeze if certain teams were allowed to make changes after others had already had their engines frozen hence why Renault dropped off the pace drastically in 2007!

Renaults wose in 07 were not down to the engine. it was the switch to Bridgestones and the way the car worked them that was their biggest problem. And Renault were allowed to use the same changes as the others. to use the word cheat for them is abit harsh. like i said its like using that term towards the diffuser 3 for pushing the limits, which after all is what F1 is about.

[myownalias]

Alright I'll revoke the cheat part but changes were made after the fact even if Renault did make changes later, but as late as September 2008 many teams were still unhappy about the changes made after the freeze by McLaren, Ferrari and BMW according to Autosport if I understand the article correctly.

[headless]

If it costs so much per lap, why have it.
You aren't going to be competitive?

[Frosty]

The simple fact is all the engines should be under the same rules, if Cosworth have made a crap engine then that's their fault maybe the teams should consider other suppliers. I also don't see anything wrong with Cosworth doing the same tweaks that Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW and Renault have done because that's within the rules but the engine should be from the engine freeze spec and rev limited like all the others. No special treatment needed it will just cause more fights and teams feeling unfairly treated.

[headless]

The simple fact is all the engines should be under the same rules, if Cosworth have made a crap engine then that's there fault maybe the teams should consider other suppliers. I also don't see anything wrong with Cosworth doing the same tweaks that Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW and Renault have done because that's within the rules but the engine should be from the engine freeze spec and rev limited like all the others. No special treatment needed it will just cause more fights and teams feeling unfairly treated.

[McLaren Fan]

The simple fact is all the engines should be under the same rules, if Cosworth have made a crap engine then that's there fault maybe the teams should consider other suppliers. I also don't see anything wrong with Cosworth doing the same tweaks that Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW and Renault have done because that's within the rules but the engine should be from the engine freeze spec and rev limited like all the others. No special treatment needed it will just cause more fights and teams feeling unfairly treated.

And, besides, it's Mosley's problem, not the current engine suppliers', that Cosworth might not be able to have their engines up to scratch for 2010. The FIA should not have given Cosworth the nod if they were not ready.

[cap-dude]

Why does no one ever talk about buying BMW engine

Anyways, Patrick Head may say they are no advantage, but I'm know there are others within the paddock who would greatly disagree with that. But considering that they bottom 3 should be well of the pace, I'm not overly worried. Just as long as Cosworth are running V8's come 2011, or 2012 at the very very latest.