FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[cap-dude]

I found this an interesting point to consider.

A lot of people are seeing a new pecking order in F1. With Brawn, Red Bull, and Toyota being the top teams currently. But has there really been any change from recent years. Ross Brawn lead Ferrari to 5 world championships. He's not new to the front. Newy has lead McLaren to several championships as well. So really, the same names are at the front, just under different teams.

It's an interesting point isn't it. Is this whats really hurting teams like McLaren and Ferrari. The loss of various team personnel.

[scotty]

I agree, and although a lot of these major personnel changes happened 2/3 years ago, it takes a few years for the effects to trickle through. I don't buy the whole 'spent time developing for last year's championship' excuse because those two have basically got two design teams!!

[Frosty]

I'm not sure I think McLaren chucked everything they had 08 they spent 4 million on a front wing which was used just once at Brazil!

[7UpJordan]

A lot of Williiams' current aerodynamicists have arrived over the past two years from Renault and Ferrari's Championship winning teams this decade. One thing that has not changed there though is Patrick Head, he still has a fair bit of input on the technical front and runs the team on race weekends.

[scotty]

I'm not sure I think McLaren chucked everything they had 08 they spent 4 million on a front wing which was used just once at Brazil!

£4m? That is so excessive i find it hard not to be cynical...

A lot of Williiams' current aerodynamicists have arrived over the past two years from Renault and Ferrari's Championship winning teams this decade. One thing that has not changed there though is Patrick Head, he still has a fair bit of input on the technical front and runs the team on race weekends.

But then Patrick Head is no stranger to success himself!

[7UpJordan]

But then Patrick Head is no stranger to success himself!

Some say that Patrick Head should have been the 1980 Champion and not Alan Jones because even he could have won it in the FW07B.

[Jensonb]

I found this an interesting point to consider.

A lot of people are seeing a new pecking order in F1. With Brawn, Red Bull, and Toyota being the top teams currently. But has there really been any change from recent years. Ross Brawn lead Ferrari to 5 world championships. He's not new to the front. Newy has lead McLaren to several championships as well. So really, the same names are at the front, just under different teams.

It's an interesting point isn't it. Is this whats really hurting teams like McLaren and Ferrari. The loss of various team personnel.

That's a fair point. These are the kinds of people who get bored of just winning constantly with little effort. So they move to new challenges, bigger ones, with more responsibility and risks. Such is the nature of great creators of all kinds.

[Stealthgate007]

The Black Art of Car Design – Brawn / Newey

Greg's commentary

Over the past couple of races we have seen a change in guard for the front running teams. Members on this forum and the media have speculated as to why the performance increase for these considered bottom/mid-pack dwellers. New regulations guaranteed that we would see changes and shake ups in the order of grid for 2009. We all gasp at the enormous amount of resources that manufactures spent on the development and on-going operations of a team. With that much money, with that much state of the art technical equipment, computational, wind tunnel and fluid dynamics, why are these manufactures where they are today?

It is my position that in this area of computers, as far advanced as they are today do not hold a candle to the years of knowledge and experience of two individuals. Granted computers have their place.

Cap-dude makes an interesting point in this post:

I found this an interesting point to consider.

A lot of people are seeing a new pecking order in F1. With Brawn, Red Bull, and Toyota being the top teams currently. But has there really been any change from recent years. Ross Brawn lead Ferrari to 5 world championships. He's not new to the front. Newy has lead McLaren to several championships as well. So really, the same names are at the front, just under different teams.

It's an interesting point isn't it. Is this whats really hurting teams like McLaren and Ferrari. The loss of various team personnel.

There is something to that and further more, it is my contention that this is more a form of Art than Science.

Newey designing a car by using rudimentary engineering tools smacks hard of Leonardo Di Vinci. According to reports he does not have a computer or doesn’t use one in the design.

I have yet to find Brawn’s way of designing a car and or if he designs it computationally. It could be said that he draws it up and put it through the computer just as Newey, but doesn’t say that to promote technology.

I believe that Brawn and Newey hold deeper secrets in development than normal. On the surface they talk about the development like other engineers. Deeper in it feels as if they give a soul to a car, or something mystical. There is more to it than just diffusers. There is backbone, muscle and flesh in these cars..

[darwin dali]

Now, don't get all meta-physical!

[Stealthgate007]

Now, don't get all meta-physical!

come on DD. You know I have a sense of imagination

[darwin dali]

Now, don't get all meta-physical!

come on DD. You know I have a sense of imagination

Yeah, where's that short story you announced some time ago?

[Stealthgate007]

Now, don't get all meta-physical!

come on DD. You know I have a sense of imagination

Yeah, where's that short story you announced some time ago?

Damn... Forgot about that. F1 season started and well.. you know...

[bud]

I didnt think Brawn actually designs as such?

and Yeah i read Newey still uses pencil and paper when drawing up concepts and not on the computer! - he sounds like a graphic designer